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Firefox Hello

mozilla.org

51–60 of 239 posts

Re: Firefox Hello

#51
I hate being "that guy", but what about sites like https://appear.in/ that do this without (seemingly?) depending on browser support? Is this using some novel p2p technique that can't be implemented using just JS?

When you send a FF Hello invite to a Chrome user, it works fine.

I.o.w.: why is this not just a website?

Re: Firefox Hello

#52
post #6

I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica". Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while, and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.

It appears that my karma level don't allow me to downvote you (at 240 I only see the uparrow). I live in Spain and Telefonica is a very good company with an excellent service but a little expensive (you have to pay to have good quality). The appropriate word your post is FUD. I hope and wish that such a great company continues its expansion and growth. By the way, I am not affiliated with this company in any way but…

I wouldn't mind the downvote but what I can say, you were lucky. Go to Andalucia and ask folks there what they think of Telefonica there.

Re: Firefox Hello

#53
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/16/mozilla-and-telefon... Presumably offering routing servers and transit. Plus Telefonica bought TokBox[1], whose tech powers the backend [1] https://tokbox.com/

Does this affect the end to end encryption mechanism of WebRTC (at least for Internet users)? In other words, can Telefonica make it easy to spy on all Firefox Hello talks, or only on the browser-to-phone ones? (which is to be expected, I guess).

From my understanding of the WebRTC spec, as long as your TURN/STUN server is trusted (which it is, the CA and relay are both run by Mozilla) it doesn't matter if the network is untrustworthy.

WebRTC by itsself is not MITM resistant

Re: Firefox Hello

#54
post #20
post #6

I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica". Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while, and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.

That was probably years ago, because by now, they are the ones that serve more homes with FTTH technology.

Nope. Last year. Started their service Oct 2013 and left Oct 2014. It maybe area dependent (was in Andalucia) but I heard nothing but bad things about their service from the locals. Manilva (small town) was without internet for 2-3 days during the summer last year and no one in their customer service would even acknowledge it!

Re: Firefox Hello

#55
post #44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a thread about firefox, when you make an answer entirely about chrome. This is neither the place nor the time for your rant.

It is very relevant. Both Chrome and Firefox are getting extremely bloated and feature-creeped. Besides bloat/performance/quality, each new feature is a new security attack vector [0]. This is a very valid discussion. Software engineers would naturally have concerns when a browser built to render web pages gets turned into a pseudo operating system. The risk here is that without focus it won't be a good browser nor a…

This, however, is just a little UI over WebRTC, an existing feature that is accessible to web content already. Hello doesn't add any significant area for new security attacks.

It's possible your argument could be against adding WebRTC itself, instead of Hello, but the topic here is Hello.

Re: Firefox Hello

#56
post #20
post #6

I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica". Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while, and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.

That was probably years ago, because by now, they are the ones that serve more homes with FTTH technology.

True, they're technically ahead with the FTTH. But if you have their DSL and don't want them to do works in your house to install their FTTH cables and devices which aren't compatible with any other provider, so that if you are unhappy you have to do works again to change ISP, then you're stuck with at most 1 GB of data per month on mobile. FTTH customers have 2 GB but they won't give DSL customers the 2 GB, not even the option to pay for it, because you know, it's obvious that I need to install FTTH in my home if I want my mobile phone to be able to handle such a bandwidth! This tends to be their policy most of the time: if you don't buy their latest and greatest they screw you by not giving you any updates until they convince you to do so (with a long-term contract of course). Oh, and unacknowledge but obvious caps on various direct download websites, P2P, etc. which I guess would go away if I bought their latest and greatest too.

I'm currently with them because my preferred cable provider (R) didn't have coverage in my building a year ago, but now they do have coverage, so I'm probably saying bye-bye to Telefonica soon. Yes, the service is now technically good, even probably the best (FTTH), but who cares if all their policies (the above is just an example but there are lots more) are set to nickel-and-dime the customers, and to sell more and more and more. You can't even do a technical service call without them spamming you and trying to sell you stuff. R doesn't have FTTH but has a much, much better customer service (including automatic improvements in the bandwidth for time to time, without even asking).

Re: Firefox Hello

#57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that my karma level don't allow me to downvote you (at 240 I only see the uparrow). I live in Spain and Telefonica is a very good company with an excellent service but a little expensive (you have to pay to have good quality). The appropriate word your post is FUD. I hope and wish that such a great company continues its expansion and growth. By the way, I am not affiliated with this company in any way but…

I wouldn't mind the downvote but what I can say, you were lucky. Go to Andalucia and ask folks there what they think of Telefonica there.

I am from Andalucia!

Re: Firefox Hello

#58
post #6

I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica". Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while, and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.

It appears that my karma level don't allow me to downvote you (at 240 I only see the uparrow). I live in Spain and Telefonica is a very good company with an excellent service but a little expensive (you have to pay to have good quality). The appropriate word your post is FUD. I hope and wish that such a great company continues its expansion and growth. By the way, I am not affiliated with this company in any way but…

Personal experience is not FUD. I'm not a user, but all I've heard about Telefonica is complaints and grievances. They were also the ISP which forced a caching proxy on its ADSL users, breaking a lot of sites. Granted that was a few years ago.

Re: Firefox Hello

#59
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, if this is peer-to-peer, what's Telefonica's role?

I don't know about Telefonica's role, but in general WebRTC needs external servers to deal with things like NATs and firewalls: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/webrtc/infrastructure...

I think telefonica is running the looper service that helps the peers connect to each other... but I am not sure.

Re: Firefox Hello

#60
post #6

I saw the tag line, liked what I saw until "powered by Telefonica". Seriously, I've lived in more than half of the European countries for a while, and never ever EVER saw such a shitty internet service as in Spain over their network. Lack of service for hours every day, substandard speeds... It made me anticipate a move to Portugal by one year because of their shitty service.

I don't view Telefonica being good/bad at running a mobile network as too relevant to this offering. It's a different product running on very different infrastructure. I do think their involvement is a good reason to be cautious, though. Why are Mozilla not running it themselves, and what does Telefonica intend to get out of the service? (large telcos generally don't run free services out of the goodness of their heart)
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