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Deploying Tor Relays

blog.mozilla.org

21–30 of 91 posts

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#21
post #3

I hope they are going to be deploying exit nodes as well. It's not very safe to run an exit node but I doubt the FBI will be raiding Mozilla and other big companies for them if this practice continues.

No way. In the US, at least, you're liable for the illegal traffic you route onto the internet as an individual.

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#22
post #3

I hope they are going to be deploying exit nodes as well. It's not very safe to run an exit node but I doubt the FBI will be raiding Mozilla and other big companies for them if this practice continues.

Part of the problem of running an exit node is that it's unclear how "safe" it actually is, and as a result there is a lot of rumor and paranoia. Every country has different laws that affect the legal status of an exit node operator.

For example, an Austrian man was arrested in 2011 for running an exit node and charged with being an accomplice to crimes that were carried out over Tor using his exit node. He was ultimately found not guilty, but a law was passed as a result that effectively makes it illegal to run a Tor exit in Austria. [0]

Meanwhile, in the US no one has ever been arrested simply for running a Tor exit node (at least to my knowledge). Anecdotal information suggests that the most difficult thing is finding someone to host the node (many cloud VPS providers, for example, will not) if you don't host it yourself. A Reddit commentator and operator of Tor exits suggests that running Tor exits is protected under U.S. law, although I'm not sure if this has been tested in court [1].

I think Mozilla should take the (relatively small, due to their presence in the U.S.) risk of running Tor exit nodes. They could even turn it into a project of its own, to explore the common problems and develop some best practices for running Tor exits. I could imagine this being a fruitful collaboration with the EFF, for example!

[0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140701/18013327753/tor-n... [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/20243q/iaman_operator_...

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#23
post #20
post #3

I hope they are going to be deploying exit nodes as well. It's not very safe to run an exit node but I doubt the FBI will be raiding Mozilla and other big companies for them if this practice continues.

It is plenty safe to run exit nodes. If your host complains, there is even form letters to send. The government knows that seizing an exit node will not help them in anyway (one can go online immediately.) Do you think Amazon gets raided? Do you know how many exit nodes are in AWS? My guess is lots because I know 2 people who have them and I don't know a lot of people.

> It is plenty safe to run exit nodes

... in someone else's data center.

Never, ever in your own home. If you are raided ALL your computers and ancillaries will be seized.

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#24
post #3

I hope they are going to be deploying exit nodes as well. It's not very safe to run an exit node but I doubt the FBI will be raiding Mozilla and other big companies for them if this practice continues.

Part of the problem of running an exit node is that it's unclear how "safe" it actually is, and as a result there is a lot of rumor and paranoia. Every country has different laws that affect the legal status of an exit node operator. For example, an Austrian man was arrested in 2011 for running an exit node and charged with being an accomplice to crimes that were carried out over Tor using his exit node. He was ultim…

What would be great is if a foundation came along that offered people a way to sponsor a Tor node without having to own or operate it themselves.

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#25
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> facebook > privacy

I don't think that Facebook has responded to many demands for data from the Syrian/Burmese/Saudi governments. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

According to their report, they haven't received any data requests from Saudi Arabia, Syria or Burma, but they did hand over data to the governments of 57 countries in the first half of 2014 alone [1].

It appears content was also censored at the request of the Saudi government.

[1] https://govtrequests.facebook.com/

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem of running an exit node is that it's unclear how "safe" it actually is, and as a result there is a lot of rumor and paranoia. Every country has different laws that affect the legal status of an exit node operator. For example, an Austrian man was arrested in 2011 for running an exit node and charged with being an accomplice to crimes that were carried out over Tor using his exit node. He was ultim…

What would be great is if a foundation came along that offered people a way to sponsor a Tor node without having to own or operate it themselves.

There already is: https://www.torservers.net/

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#27
post #3

I hope they are going to be deploying exit nodes as well. It's not very safe to run an exit node but I doubt the FBI will be raiding Mozilla and other big companies for them if this practice continues.

No way. In the US, at least, you're liable for the illegal traffic you route onto the internet as an individual.

Has that ever been proven? I suspect it's as unproven as the theory that Tor operators are "common carriers" and as liable for the traffic that passes over their connection as an ISP is for the traffic that passes over its connections.

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is plenty safe to run exit nodes. If your host complains, there is even form letters to send. The government knows that seizing an exit node will not help them in anyway (one can go online immediately.) Do you think Amazon gets raided? Do you know how many exit nodes are in AWS? My guess is lots because I know 2 people who have them and I don't know a lot of people.

> It is plenty safe to run exit nodes ... in someone else's data center. Never, ever in your own home. If you are raided ALL your computers and ancillaries will be seized.

I've ran an exit node in my home for several years and the worst I've seen as a result of it is several DMCA notices and one polite call from the police in another state.

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem of running an exit node is that it's unclear how "safe" it actually is, and as a result there is a lot of rumor and paranoia. Every country has different laws that affect the legal status of an exit node operator. For example, an Austrian man was arrested in 2011 for running an exit node and charged with being an accomplice to crimes that were carried out over Tor using his exit node. He was ultim…

What would be great is if a foundation came along that offered people a way to sponsor a Tor node without having to own or operate it themselves.

IANAL, but would this just require someone incorporating or starting an LLC and then paying for the exit nodes in the name of that entity? Would that be sufficient protection?

Re: Deploying Tor Relays

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be great is if a foundation came along that offered people a way to sponsor a Tor node without having to own or operate it themselves.

There already is: https://www.torservers.net/

I work at Mozilla, and the folks at Torservers.net were extremely helpful in helping us get up to speed quickly. We're hoping to contribute to the public body of knowledge on how to operate servers efficiently, both in terms of effort and cost.
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