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The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

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Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#61
post #12
post #8

Well there is another $120 pre-allocated :-). I hope they make an electronic version, although I would be OK with buying a second copy and getting it scanned if they don't.

Me too. All the engineering books I use week-to-week are PDFs in a directory on my computer. The dead tree versions (including AoE) sit on the shelf unused. Make sure to click the "I want this title to be available as an ebook" link on that page.

And my jaded self would think the digital copy would be some DRM pile of crap.

I've dealt with "school books-but online" before. I've seen things like 'book explodes after 180 days combined with 'can only print 10 pages'.

I'll scan it myself or download it from someone who has. I'm just done with DRM. Never again.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#62
post #52

I always wanted a copy of this when it was recommended on my Comp Sys Engineering B.Eng but never could afford it at the time. I'm tempted to buy a copy now even though the closest I get to electronics these days is configuring my router. //edit//$120! It was £20 when it was recommended on my course in 1990 (IIRC).

Inflation since 1990: a little more than 2x. Exchange rate: about 1.5x. So £20 in 1990 is something like $60 now.

So it's gone up by about a factor of 2. That's fairly sad, but it's not as spectacular as the 20:120 ratio your comment suggests...

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#63
post #6

I learned from the 1st edition, back in 1983, when I took the electronics course for physics majors. I think it's the best textbook I've ever used, in any subject. I fell in love with analog electronics. Note my HN user name. ;-) What's happened with analog since then? I believe that opto-electronics is much more important today, as are switchmode circuits. Some things, like systematic noise budgeting, will never go…

What happened? Digital and moore's law took over. The microprocessor continues to absorb every function that, at one point, made economical sense to do in the analog domain. I share your lament, but reality instructs us to condition signals and supply voltage properly, and let the micro take it from there. It's only going to become more true as time moves on, so learn programming. Get very good at it.

This is a problem. Need a solution? Slap a micro on it. It's a shortcut but not always the best solution. I've seen circuits using a cheap micro, yes, but someone had to program it and a simple analog circuit would have done nicely, cheaper and possibly better and more reliably.

This thought that every problem is solved with a microprocessor shows no thought being applied to the solution, not brilliance by some engineer.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted. I definitely agree that many erstwhile "analog" functions have joined the dark side. ;-) And I've been programming digital / analog systems since the early 80s. But I think that two challenges / opportunities remain for analog. The first is that advances in digital capabilities place new demands on analog. For instance, the possibility of higher sampling rates and bit depths requires us to go back and update…

Really curious what your job is?

I work for a company that makes instrumentation. It's one of those "okay, now what am I going to do with a physics degree" kinds of things, but it suits me well. And I've bounced in and out of management. Today, there are engineers who are ahead of me in electronic design, but I'm good at figuring out the grand overview of how products work, and like to solve weird problems. Much of my programming is in the service of solving problems, rather than creating products.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened? Digital and moore's law took over. The microprocessor continues to absorb every function that, at one point, made economical sense to do in the analog domain. I share your lament, but reality instructs us to condition signals and supply voltage properly, and let the micro take it from there. It's only going to become more true as time moves on, so learn programming. Get very good at it.

I am too young to have been there for the digital vs analog debate, but I understand that things being digital was not always obvious. The reason digital won is because, very crudely, to double the precision of a digital circuit you just give it wider registers (scale horizontally), while to double the precision of an analog circuit you have to more than double the precision of every component of the system (scale ve…

I'd go even further and say that you can increase the complexity of digital systems exponentially, and create functionality that just can't even be imagined in the analog realm.

But another feature, not inherent to all digital circuits but certainly prevalent, is the ability to reprogram them. For me to change an analog circuit might take hours with a soldering iron. You can load a whole new "circuit" into a digital system at the push of a button. This in turn changes how products are designed. Analog functionality is used sparingly where needed, and gotten working early in a project. The digital system is left with some flexibility, e.g., allowing changes to made later in the project without drastic hardware revision. The mantra of the analog team, at the 11th hour of the project, is: "Can we fix this in the firmware?"

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was basically the only opamp we were allowed to use in my undergraduate electronics for Physicists classes.

It's a terrible opamp for precision measurement. (Actually it's a terrible opamp for most things, except maybe student experiments.) I have mixed feelings about AofA. On the one hand it's funny and a good broad introduction to a lot of relevant concepts. On the other it glosses over so much of the math you need to learn to be competent at design that it doesn't teach you nearly as much as it seems to. When I first re…

But it's an intro book. No single text can cover the introduction for the range com people with no background to people designing cutting edge circuitry. At some point you need a BS or MS in EE of course, but at this point you're out of the realm of AoE.

I heard one guy who I used to work with criticize AoE for having an 'incorrect' circuit (I think it was some kind of differential amp). It turns out that this guy had a MS in EE, and was designing a low-noise amplifier to work in GHz range and complaining that the AoE circuit diagram, which was only meant probably up to a few MHz tops, didn't account for some source of thermodynamic noise from the silicon transistors. Or something like that, long ago. Point is, if you're at that level of expertise you should not be using an intro book. The fact this guy even thought to use AoE speaks volumes of just how useful it really is.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened? Digital and moore's law took over. The microprocessor continues to absorb every function that, at one point, made economical sense to do in the analog domain. I share your lament, but reality instructs us to condition signals and supply voltage properly, and let the micro take it from there. It's only going to become more true as time moves on, so learn programming. Get very good at it.

And just how many serial busses, wireless networks, HDD heads, flash level detectors, and DRAM sense amplifiers did those words of yours have to travel across to get from you to me compared to 10 or 15 years ago? Analog only looks like it's falling in importance if you divide by the size of the digital industry.

Don't forget traditional RF. How do you build a microwave low noise RF preamp using a microcontroller? Or a 1000 watt solid state broadcast transmitter using a microcontroller?

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#68
post #62
post #52

I always wanted a copy of this when it was recommended on my Comp Sys Engineering B.Eng but never could afford it at the time. I'm tempted to buy a copy now even though the closest I get to electronics these days is configuring my router. //edit//$120! It was £20 when it was recommended on my course in 1990 (IIRC).

Inflation since 1990: a little more than 2x. Exchange rate: about 1.5x. So £20 in 1990 is something like $60 now. So it's gone up by about a factor of 2. That's fairly sad, but it's not as spectacular as the 20:120 ratio your comment suggests...

Well, it looks like it's been enhanced quite a bit. Not saying it's not worth it, but it has jumped out of the "impulse buy" category.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#69
post #58

The Art of Electronics, combined with the Student Workbook are excellent books to teach yourself electronics. I guess today you'd use electronic simulations on a computer rather than real components on bread-boards with real test equipment. Perhaps some HNer is involved with this type of simulation software? I might be worth creating "labs" that can be used while reading tAoE?

I think the best analogy I can give for doing electronic labs online is the way cisco certification tests were provided in a very limited simulation presumably using regex's to see if you get it "right" (at least this is how it was a decade ago) vs getting time at an actual router command line. Its a different experience to do something real vs a simulation with pre-determined conclusions and situations.

I'm struggling to think of a programming analogy, comparing getting a real live REPL to getting some kind of not-REPL training environment. I don't think there really is anything that bad in all of program writing.

What simulation is really good at is optimization. Its a useful skill but not the only one. Maybe a good programming analogy would be ripping all the "write a program" assignments out of a CS curriculum and replacing them all with profiler exercises. So rather than writing your own bubblesort and quicksort, you'd just run a profiler on someone elses sorting libraries and compare the numerical results to get the expected result from the book.

A really good car analogy is I'm old enough that when we did Drivers Ed we had simulation where driving scenes were projected on a screen and we optimistically pretended to drive a car, vs the behind the wheel section of drivers ed where we actually drove a real car around. Its kind of useful, kind of, but I don't think you can really learn to drive a car by watching carefully crafted movies of someone else driving.

Re: The Art of Electronics, 3rd Edition, to be released April 2015

#70

This is offtopic, but I need to ask this question and I fear I may loose the opportunity to field it to this audience of experts. I'm interested in two things and am wondering if this book, or something else, would be of use to me. Assume I have strong math background, and assume I understand the Maxwell equations. What book/resource provides a good understanding of the approximations (from first principles) needed t…

Thanks everyone for the responses. I think it seems, for the depth I'm interested in, it'll require deep study on my part, instead of my spare brain cycles. Here's my thinking that prompted this, sorry for the brain dump and lack of links, these are startupish ideas.

In business you have either the forces of disintermediation/vertical-integration, or specialization. We've moved from "real men have foundries" to fabless, with consolidation of foundries. I think of ARM as a software company. I am a software person. The goal of software is to turn hardware X into X-as-a-service, à la Amazon AWS. Part of the compromise of XaaS is compromise. What you loose in specialization you gain in flexibility; you shift capex into opex and promote venture capital.

Okay, so what?

What is post ARM? Three are two opposing forces of modern compute. On the one hand you have Amazon with Annapurna, and Google with its custom switches, consolidating the datacenter into a service, a really big black box with a internet-facing API. On the other hand you have the free-wheeling world of IoT, with all the big players trying desperately to create walled gardens. My thesis: this won't work for IoT.

What does this mean for future hardware? Well, think of what it would mean to turn something into a XaaS. Consider the foundry as a VHDL/Verilog to silicon. Simplify the frontend and the backend, i.e. limit/streamline the HDL and the output geometry(TSSOP/BGA/etc), in order to increase yield. The software would look like mix-and-match core (ARM/MIPS/lowRISC), pick on-chip bus, pick SRAM, pick memory controller (hey, cool you're dropping all DRAM controller for several NAND controllers and a small on-chip flash), pick accelerators, ethernet, etc/etc. Of course this is essentially already the case in hardware, except for the still large upfront capital expense.

But consider something else for IoT, something for the future electrician/carpenter/plumber. That is, change the customer from the end user to experts in the trades or proficient DIYers. To do this a startup would specify the physical/mechanical/electrical/thermal/acoustic/etc properties of modules, be it li-fi, smart sockets, servos, etc and make software to mix-and-match them into devices by these trades experts to solve problems. For example, someone who installs blinds can put together a modules to build something that automatically controls the blinds. To make this work requires some serious cross-disciplinary thinking. The backend would have this modules fully openly specified with factories wherever in the world competing to build them. The frontend would be educating and marketing to tradespeople as a way to make their practices more lucrative and increase their fees. The goal would be this software with lots of pre-designed module combinations, and tips and tricks for "blinging" up your home. To begin, the startup would have to design and manufacture its own modules to show viability, and then drop out of the picture and earn money on royalties collected from being interoperable with their design software.

Yes, if only I had a few megabucks lying around... :)

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