Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 134 posts

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#91

Post by threatofrain »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #77
threatofrain wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, as long as your child is normal, unlike the child in this article who cannot be vaccinated, then your child should be fine. This was only a case because one child had a medical reason to not be medicated, but in consequence, you know, that child could also get other people sick, and heaven forbid there are two special exceptions in one school.

Actually, vaccinations do not 'take' 100% of the time, so there are kids who were vaccinated, but are still not immune.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Does that mean that they yet cannot transmit? Or that the vaccine just doesn't work in those cases?

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#92

Post by smuss77 »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #50
smuss77 wrote: post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

That actually doesn't sound that bad. It's interesting invoking the phrase "laws and regulations" is meant to indicate on its face something terrible. :) Maybe it is just simply irresponsible and negligent not to vaccinate your child. Makes a lot of sense to me. But then I like polio's status today, perhaps some would like to see it make a comeback.

It absolutely is meant to seem terrible. :) Not to put words in your mouth, but assuming a law is passed requiring every kid get vaccinated, there must be a punitive side to the law. What will it be? Prison? Taking people's kids?

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#93

Post by jrs235 »

cc439 wrote: post #75
maxlybbert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that bothers me isn't the need to vaccinate, but the fact that the list of vaccinations continues to get longer. Well, it isn't the length of the list; it's simply that I'm not worried about all of the diseases on the list. My main disagreement is chicken pox. Yes, I understand that there are serious chicken pox cases, but they're incredibly rare. Whoever made the decision to include the chicken pox vaccine…

The chicken pox vaccine is included to prevent shingles. You will be long gone by the time your child is a senior citizen and vulnerable to the relapse but it's a horrible experience for the elderly.

You don't have to be senior to get shingles. I got shingles at age 30 along the s2 and s3 dermatomes. Extremely painful but certainly survivable and treatable. Complications are the big concern in the elderly. I think education and knowledge dissemination on what to look for for early diagnosis is more important.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#94

Post by profsnuggles »

maxlybbert wrote: post #38
smuss77 wrote: post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

The thing that bothers me isn't the need to vaccinate, but the fact that the list of vaccinations continues to get longer. Well, it isn't the length of the list; it's simply that I'm not worried about all of the diseases on the list. My main disagreement is chicken pox. Yes, I understand that there are serious chicken pox cases, but they're incredibly rare. Whoever made the decision to include the chicken pox vaccine…

Something about this comment is really bugging me and I'm not sure what it is. I think I'm in agreement that giving people unnecessary medical procedures is probably a bad idea. Maybe it's just because I don't understand why you hate the chicken pox vaccine.

I took a quick look at the CDC page about it and the wikipedia entry. According to wikipedia before the vaccine was introduced in the US 10k people a year were admitted to a hospital due to chicken pox and 100 people a year died from it. It goes on to say that 10 years after the CDC recommended the vaccine the hospital admissions dropped by 71% for people under 20 and deaths dropped 97%.

Neither of those sources had numbers for the moderate or severe reactions cause by the vaccine (seizures,pneumonia) the CDC just says very rare. Overall though it seems like there is essentially no downside.

Now that I just looked all that up maybe my issue is when you claim that they "weighed a very rare risk for unvaccinated children against even smaller risks for vaccinated children" and go on to agree that was a rational decision. At that point wouldn't not being immunized just be irrational?

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#95

Post by Vendan »

cc439 wrote: post #75
maxlybbert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that bothers me isn't the need to vaccinate, but the fact that the list of vaccinations continues to get longer. Well, it isn't the length of the list; it's simply that I'm not worried about all of the diseases on the list. My main disagreement is chicken pox. Yes, I understand that there are serious chicken pox cases, but they're incredibly rare. Whoever made the decision to include the chicken pox vaccine…

The chicken pox vaccine is included to prevent shingles. You will be long gone by the time your child is a senior citizen and vulnerable to the relapse but it's a horrible experience for the elderly.

shingles isn't just for old people, I'm 27 and I had it. Wish I hadn't. Caught it early and the doctor said I was lucky, but it still hurt to even move.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#96

Post by mc32 »

andyh2 wrote: post #41
pbreit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt people in Marin are doing it on religious grounds.

Can confirm, I grew up near the area described in the article. USC has some 2010 data [1] on religious beliefs in Marin. None of the popular belief systems are known for discouraging immunization. Anecdotally, Marin has quite a large alternative medicine following which may explain the high opt-out rate. [1] http://crcc.usc.edu/resources/demographics/marin.html

It's astounding to me that the anti-vaccine movement is so strong in Marin of all paces, good percentage educated overall, good tertiary education and pretty high income.

But, as they say, people will believe despite evidence or overwhelming evidence to the contrary. One can excuse religious people on the basis that their belief is based in faith rather than interpreting the data their way. What happens in Marin, among other places, is that people believe despite data showing otherwise.

In other words, people in Marin aren't saying, well, but I have faith that vaccines are bad, no they're saying we believe data says vaccines are bad. It's incomprehensible.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#97

Post by nl »

threatofrain wrote: post #91
TulliusCicero wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, vaccinations do not 'take' 100% of the time, so there are kids who were vaccinated, but are still not immune.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Does that mean that they yet cannot transmit? Or that the vaccine just doesn't work in those cases?

I believe it just doesn't work.

The measles vaccine is actually one of the most effective vaccines in the world. According to Greg Wallace, lead of the measles, mumps, rubella and polio team at the CDC, two doses are 97 percent effective against infection.... But in some people, that response just doesn’t happen. No one knows why. Either your body doesn’t produce enough antibodies, or the ones it does produce aren’t specific enough to latch on to the virus and kill it.... even with two doses, you can get some failure,” says Wallace, “whether it’s because the initial response isn’t perfect, or because the response waned in some people.”[1]

The sad thing is that once the numbers of unvaccinated people goes up, really infectious diseases like measles are transmitted to those who have the misfortune of having an ineffective vaccine much more often:

If you have a group of 1,000 people concentrated in a small space—like oh, say, hypothetically, an amusement park—about 90 percent of them will be vaccinated (hopefully). One person, maybe someone who contracted measles on a recent trip to the Philippines, moves around, spreading the virus. Measles is crazy contagious, so of the 100 people who aren’t vaccinated, about 90 will get infected. Then, of the 900 people who are vaccinated, 3 percent—27 people—get infected because they don’t have full immunity.[1]

[1] http://www.wired.com/2015/01/vaccinated-people-get-measles-d...

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#98

Post by [deleted] »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #77
threatofrain wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, as long as your child is normal, unlike the child in this article who cannot be vaccinated, then your child should be fine. This was only a case because one child had a medical reason to not be medicated, but in consequence, you know, that child could also get other people sick, and heaven forbid there are two special exceptions in one school.

Actually, vaccinations do not 'take' 100% of the time, so there are kids who were vaccinated, but are still not immune.

[deleted]

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#99

Post by smuss77 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #81
smuss77 wrote: post #27

If it was my son and he couldn't be vaccinated for a few months I'd simply hold him out of school until the vaccinations could be administered. I feel for the child and his family, it's a horrible thing that happened to them, but talk about solving a simple problem with an activist response. This is how we end up with a ridiculous number of laws and regulations. If we should legislate that every kid in a public schoo…

Why does your personal preference with any basis in fact or reasoning allow you to trump some sick child's ability to attend school? Where does preference end? If there's a boy in a kindergarten with severe peanut allergy, should the class snack be peanuts one a day week? After all, the kid can stay home that day? Read the story of FDR's struggle with polio. Or the death and disfigurement dealt out by smallpox. Or th…

I didn't say I have a preference. Labeling someones choice not to vaccinate a "personal preference" is quite belittling. There is a real, albeit tiny, risk of allergic reaction and possibly death from vaccines (pro-vaccine reference http://www.vaccines.com/vaccine-allergic-reaction-odds.cfm). So the peanut analogy doesn't hold up, the lack of peanuts doesn't pose a risk to any child.

Re: To Protect His Son, a Father Asks School to Bar Unvaccinated Children

#100

Post by mc32 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #68
chrisau wrote: post #42

One thing confuses me. Why are parents of vaccinated kids so terrified of unvaccinated kids?? Does vaccination work or not? If my kids are vaccinated, doesn't that mean they won't catch the disease if they encounter it? Or, at the worst, get a mild dose. If vaccination works, why do we care that a small minority aren't vaccinated?

> Why are parents of vaccinated kids so terrified of unvaccinated kids?? Does vaccination work or not? Vaccines don't always take. These people depend on herd immunity - high rates of vaccination in the general population - for protection. Then there are people like the one in the article, kids who cannot be vaccinated. Some have allergies to vaccine ingredients, some have had their immune systems destroyed by chemo.…

My personal opinion is that if people could pin patient zero on an un-immunized underage person, the affected person should be able to bring a civil lawsuit against the offenders --with exceptions for infirm, very young, immuno-deficient.

Else this is crazy --and educated people of all people. I can't understand it. It does however, bring their intellect esteem down to earth. What I mean is it highlights that experts can be just as wrong in their conclusion as "nutters".

Post reply on HN