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Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

spiegel.de

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Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#171

Post by LLWM »

teamhappy wrote: post #115
LLWM wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best defense is a good offense.

I just explained to you why that's not true. Let me try again: Attacking a computer means finding a bug and keeping it secret until you use it to attack said computer. Defending a computer means finding a bug and disclosing/fixing it so that nobody can use it to attack said computer. I hope it's obvious to you that these two ideas contradict each other. Please let me know if you have questions. This is very important…

Attacking someone who is attacking you is also a form of defense. Please let Sun Tzu know if you have questions. This is very important and not intuitive at all, though I don't particularly care about helping you to understand it better since it's considered common knowledge in the modern era.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#172

Post by philovivero »

ingler wrote: post #140
bayesianhorse wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have a very limited view of history. Crime, theft and murder used to be extremely more common. You may be able to defend yourself against your neighbor. What about women and children? What about against multiple aggressors, or ones with better weapons? Turns out, without an effective police force, liberties are distributed a lot less equally... Steve Pinker explained in a TED talk that hunter/gatherer societ…

> Then you have a very limited view of history. Pro tip: when disagreeing with someone on a philosophical point, it's good form to leave "you" statements out of the debate. Good day, sir.

It's amazing I've never heard this pro-tip before, but it's phenomenal. Wow. Thanks for this tiny piece of advice in the middle of all this.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#173

Post by ptaipale »

happyscrappy wrote: post #47
DavideNL wrote: post #45

US spying on allies, what else is new? Wasn't most of this already known? From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regin_(malware)#Known_attacks_... : `Der Spiegel reported in November 2014.......` `Fox IT found Regin on the computers of one of its customers, and according to their analysis parts of Regin are mentioned in the NSA ANT catalog under the names "Straitbizarre" and "Unitedrake".`

Has Speigel reported on the ubiquitous US spy stations peppered throughout Europe? Have they speculated on why Europe does not close them?

Yes, it has, see [0], [1]. But there are fairly simple reasons why Europe does not close those stations, namely because European nations (including Germany) are doing similar things on their own [2],[3],[4] and also together with the Americans [5], and they generally think it's good that way.

Another point is that enforcing closure of such stations is rather difficult. You can limit these activities by making noise in the public and declaring diplomats persona non grata, but such things come with a diplomatic price.

BTW, your question reminds me of the activities of Интернет исследовательское агентство. According to reports, they like to raise this kind of points, though sometimes more more aggressively (hence the name "troll army").

[0] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-...

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-helicopte...

[2] http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarc...

[3] http://www.matthewaid.com/post/88066878726/bnd-admits-six-fa...

[4] http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-12-21/news/1994355023_... (1994!)

[5] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-german-bnd-a...

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#174

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #170
anonbanker wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been tracking the new downvoting trend for the last week or so. Seems there's a lot of accounts downvoting everything that doesn't coincide with Western Government sensibilities. The recent North Korea and LSD threads (not just my replies, but you can get to the threads from my comment history) are really interesting examples to trudge through and see how many valid replies are sitting at -1 or worse.

> I've been tracking the new downvoting trend for the last week or so. Seems there's a lot of accounts downvoting everything that doesn't coincide with Western Government sensibilities. I'm not sure what new downvoting trend you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure there is no new anti-anti-Western-government trend on HN. There's a strong cognitive bias toward seeing one's own views as being treated more unfairly. Bu…

[deleted]

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#175

Post by ptaipale »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #125
bayesianhorse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. The NSA does have democratic oversight. It is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicative branches of the system. That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for the question whether or not the NSA is part of a democratic system.

> The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. [citation needed]

>citation needed

http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

https://www.freedomhouse.org/report-types/freedom-world

The U.S. is not exactly at the top in all such comparisons, but certainly "as good or better than most other countries."

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#176

Post by HillRat »

Someone1234 wrote: post #77
Lambdanaut wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind that's conspiracy-theory level claims. Got sources?

There's nothing conspiratorial about that one. Look up the echelon network and the UKUSA Agreement (both on Wikipedia). It has also been talked about in several books on the topic and discussed openly in the press. It is almost an "open secret" at this point. Heck you can almost read the above claims verbatim here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement#Controversy > During the 2013 NSA leaks Internet spying s…

By the way, my understanding is that it was never as simple as two countries colluding to share raw data with each other; there had to be essentially a "laundering" of the data by turning it into analyzed intelligence, so that an NSA analyst couldn't just explicitly task a selector on a US-resident AMCIT via another FVEY partner.

If you think about it from the lawyers' perspective, it goes something like this:

I(a)) A can gather data on BCITs.

I(b)) A cannot gather data or cause data to be gathered on ACITs.

II(a)) B can gather data on ACITs.

II(b)) B cannot gather data or cause data to be gathered on BCITs.

III) Data gathered via (I(a)) or (II(a)) is lawfully collected.

IV) Lawfully-collected data may be turned into intelligence.

V) A and B can share intelligence that is gathered by lawful means.

Therefore, A can receive intelligence on ACITs and B can receive intelligence on BCITs, so long as they do not derive that intelligence by gathering data or causing data to be gathered on their own citizens.

Now, this was pre-9/11; after that, who knows what gloves came off?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#177

Post by ptaipale »

Flip-per wrote: post #53
raverbashing wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

Are you serious? I wonder what Barrett Brown would say about this topic, if he wouldn't sit in prison right now: http://boingboing.net/2015/01/22/barrettbrown.html Are you aware that (h)activists from around the world do not travel to the USA because they fear the consequences, having their equipment seized or being imprisoned? Do you know why Laura Poitras is living in Berlin right now?

> Are you serious?

I'm sure he is, and I agree with him.

On the less serious side, it's like that old joke about American and Soviet journalists, who discuss freedoms and yelling "Down with the USA" at the Times Square and Red Square, respectively. You can do the same at both places without fear of consequences.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#178

Post by ufoolme »

As a lazy person and Devil's advocate, why does anyone not think that the various intelligence agencies copied the malware? Surely they would have access to some of the best in all their various honeypots be it that they are attacked by everyone and everything. "Good artists copy, great artists steal."-PP

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#179

Post by ptaipale »

pXMzR2A wrote: post #50
raverbashing wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

> I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country... Yes, he would have. And in many, he would not need it.

What does it mean that someone does not "need" a liberty?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#180

Post by teamhappy »

LLWM wrote: post #171
teamhappy wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just explained to you why that's not true. Let me try again: Attacking a computer means finding a bug and keeping it secret until you use it to attack said computer. Defending a computer means finding a bug and disclosing/fixing it so that nobody can use it to attack said computer. I hope it's obvious to you that these two ideas contradict each other. Please let me know if you have questions. This is very important…

Attacking someone who is attacking you is also a form of defense. Please let Sun Tzu know if you have questions. This is very important and not intuitive at all, though I don't particularly care about helping you to understand it better since it's considered common knowledge in the modern era.

I can do this all day: In order to be able to attack somebody who's attacking you, you need exploits available to you. If you have exploits available to you, you're making yourself attackable. Do you really not see the problem here?
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