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Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

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Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#131

Post by lotsofmangos »

raverbashing wrote: post #112
Flip-per wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"in any other country" reads a bit different than "turkey and some middle-east countries". This is rather about free speech than about copyright issues which GEMA and the DMCA deal with. Have a look at the Freedom of Press Index, where the USA are behind Botswana and El Salvador: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

"where the USA are behind Botswana and El Salvador" You mean, in position 46 of 180? Higher rated than Italy, Taiwan, South Korea, Chile and Japan? Not the best position, surely, almost on the Top 4th Nice attempt of data manipulation, btw, also implying that Botswana and El Salvador should not have good freedom of press "of course"

I don't see where your claim of data manipulation comes from, people have clearly answered the question you were wondering about.

The answer being yes, according to reputable sources, Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in many other countries and in several countries it would appear that he would have more.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#132

Post by bayesianhorse »

rantanplan wrote: post #51
bayesianhorse wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing these backdoors isn't government hacking on legitimate targets, but rather a sort of lazy surveillance or intrusion on its citizens.

You comment here sort of answers my question above. So basically you don't agree with attacking or weakening crypto/security systems. The thing is that without those "competitive advantages", I fail to see how they can have an advantage over the bad guys. Playing offense, when the need arises, won't cut it. You're gonna have to "lay the foundations" so to speak, for you to be a successful attacker. So basically we re…

Hacking is not the only way to spy on an enemy, especially terrorists or criminals. If such a group is sophisticated enough to evade all but the most sophisticated, ultra-secret bleeding edge attacks, maybe it's time to resort to conventional means. Luckily most such groups aren't. They just began using encryption.

The alternative to offensive hacking is to include backdoors in the encryption technology used by everyone. I think that this is causing more harm than good.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#133

Post by hox »

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #126

The NSA is tasked with doing signals intelligence so I get why they would develop some hacking abilities but you have to wonder where the break over point is with the money they are spending...at some point they are spending enough money that they could actually make a difference in improving our software and infrastructure. I mean, one of the reasons they say that they need these capabilities is because we are so vu…

They do. They have lots of documents and guidance on best practice for security. As for code, they started the SELinux project. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#134

Post by teamhappy »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #128
teamhappy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why people vote you down for sharing your opinion. Having said that, your logic is fundamentally flawed. Governments have to either focus on attacking or defending. Focusing on attacking means keeping a lid on vulnerabilities, which weakens the security of citizens and corporations inside their own country. Focusing on defending means disclosing those vulnerabilities in order to protect everybody, which also…

Not disclosing vulnerabilities is not a question of attacking or defending, it's just stupid to keep vulnerabilities open. I also didn't propose to uncompromisingly favor attack capabilities. I still don't think effective cyber defense is possible on a national level without leading the edge on offensive abilities as well.

I really don't want to explain it a third time, so let me just ask you a question instead: How do you lead the edge on offensive abilities without keeping vulnerabilities/bugs secret? Let me rephrase that: How do you lead the edge on offensive abilities without weakening the security of the people who are paying your salary; the very same people you swore an oath to protect? Please explain to me how that is possible on a technical level. If you can't, or you still don't really understand what I'm talking about, that's fine. Just ask.

---

I'm gonna explain it a third time. (Looks like you don't want to talk to me.)

Having offensive abilities means having one or more remote exploits ready to use. Having remote exploits ready to use means sitting on undisclosed vulnerabilities. Sitting on undisclosed vulnerabilities means weakening the security of the people you're supposed to protect.

It's quite simple, really. You can't remotely attack a computer without remote exploits. I only count remote attacks as "cyber warfare".

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#135

Post by bayesianhorse »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #118
ingler wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA has little to no oversight: ---- "Congressional oversight of the NSA is a joke. I should know, I'm in Congress" by Alan Grayson http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/25/nsa-no-... ---- A minor quibble, but governments don't provide freedoms and liberties. They restrict them. Hence the word "govern" and its etymology.

Try to enjoy your liberty, for example the right to property, when there is no government to stop your neighbor from just taking your stuff. Looking back at history, I vastly prefer the balance of liberty afforded by strong governments in the western world to the lack of such control.

Then you have a very limited view of history. Crime, theft and murder used to be extremely more common.

You may be able to defend yourself against your neighbor. What about women and children? What about against multiple aggressors, or ones with better weapons? Turns out, without an effective police force, liberties are distributed a lot less equally...

Steve Pinker explained in a TED talk that hunter/gatherer societies are a lot more violent than modern societies. For example these groups have to launch preemptive attacks against neighbors if only for fear of the other group striking first.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#136

Post by chc »

logfromblammo wrote: post #116
GrinningFool wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that it's source code at the lowest possible level...

And I'd argue that it is a disassembly of a binary compiled from source code. Source code has the word " source " in it. Unless the original human wrote it directly in assembly without comments or macros (from his padded cell at the asylum, naturally), it is obviously not source code.

"Source code" is generally code you can put into a compiler and get out object code. The term "source" refers to the fact that it is used as input. This is why, for example, the GPL specifies that you must release the original source code in the preferred format for editing — so that people wouldn't release source code generated by disassembly or a source-to-source transformer.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#137

Post by zxcvcxz »

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool: In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth. Given the relative popularity of cricket in the US vs. the rest of the world, it's more likely that this was written outside the NSA.

How smart would you have to be to insert references to different cultural aspects other than your own to make it look as if it's from another entity? I think it would take at least the smartness of two average people..

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#138

Post by anonbanker »

barryfandango wrote: post #97
MichaelGG wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that logic, what would constitute evidence? That's like the senator in favor of the Japanese interment camps saying that the fact that no Japanese Americans had committed a crime was just even more evidence they were planning something. Edit: More clearly written than my comment: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ih/absence_of_evidence_is_evidence_o... But basically, people have already come to a conclusion. If the comme…

So I can clearly not choose the drink that is in front of you!

That's what I get for fighting a land war in Asia.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#139

Post by Someone1234 »

hansjorg wrote: post #105
Someone1234 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing conspiratorial about that one. Look up the echelon network and the UKUSA Agreement (both on Wikipedia). It has also been talked about in several books on the topic and discussed openly in the press. It is almost an "open secret" at this point. Heck you can almost read the above claims verbatim here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement#Controversy > During the 2013 NSA leaks Internet spying s…

What would you call it when governments conspire against their populations to subvert constitutional limits? It's literally conspiratorial.

Maybe, but I'm 99.99% sure that wasn't the person above's implication by suggesting it was "just" a conspiracy theory. If it had have been their entire point would be redundant, instead it is likely they were trying to suggest it was a fiction or born out of paranoia.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "fact" but based on several leaks, books, and news sources it is likely more fact than fiction.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#140

Post by ingler »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #135
bayesianhorse wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to enjoy your liberty, for example the right to property, when there is no government to stop your neighbor from just taking your stuff. Looking back at history, I vastly prefer the balance of liberty afforded by strong governments in the western world to the lack of such control.

Then you have a very limited view of history. Crime, theft and murder used to be extremely more common. You may be able to defend yourself against your neighbor. What about women and children? What about against multiple aggressors, or ones with better weapons? Turns out, without an effective police force, liberties are distributed a lot less equally... Steve Pinker explained in a TED talk that hunter/gatherer societ…

> Then you have a very limited view of history.

Pro tip: when disagreeing with someone on a philosophical point, it's good form to leave "you" statements out of the debate.

Good day, sir.

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