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Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

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Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#31

Post by Kurtz79 »

luch wrote: post #9
gadders wrote: post #6

Smart. Does this mean I can have a vote and decide to not pay for any games from Steam now?

You're implying Greece did take Euro money without any intention to repay other countries. The reality is much more nuanced. Greek did take part of a fund destined to boost their economy, like Western european countries with the US's Marshall Plan. Whether the investments made with this money were profitable or not it's up to debate, but the end game (as for Spain, Portugal and Italy) always were to improve the greek…

"Greek did take part of a fund destined to boost their economy, like Western european countries with the US's Marshall Plan."

Unless I'm mistaken, you are very mistaken, and confusing things.

"Greek debt" has nothing to do with the EU Cohesion fund (which is open to all member states which meet the criteria) or Euro Bonds (which , to this date, do not exist), but with a large number of national bonds that have been bought by the ECB and IMF specifically.

So yes, basically Greece took Euro money and now is planning not to repay it.

I agree though that saying that every Greek is responsible for this situation, or that the conditions for repayment are fair, are other matters entirely.

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#33

Post by numair »

xkarga00 wrote: post #30

Varoufakis is a great economist and his placement as the Finance Minister is a smart move from the new government. At this point I would like to suggest reading To Future And Back by I. Pitsouli[1]. Somewhere in it, there is suggested (or prophecized if you wish) that in years to come scientists will replace politicians in governments. Well, that has already started happening and is right IMO because science is close…

Wow, what a futuristic concept, to have a government comprised of scientists! I wonder which forward-thinking Western government will implement this first?

http://singularityhub.com/2011/05/17/eight-out-of-chinas-top...

;)

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#34

Post by jahewson »

numair wrote: post #33
xkarga00 wrote: post #30

Varoufakis is a great economist and his placement as the Finance Minister is a smart move from the new government. At this point I would like to suggest reading To Future And Back by I. Pitsouli[1]. Somewhere in it, there is suggested (or prophecized if you wish) that in years to come scientists will replace politicians in governments. Well, that has already started happening and is right IMO because science is close…

Wow, what a futuristic concept, to have a government comprised of scientists! I wonder which forward-thinking Western government will implement this first? http://singularityhub.com/2011/05/17/eight-out-of-chinas-top... ;)

Germany.

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#35

Post by Shivetya »

It will be interesting to see if they can pare down some of Greece's military expenditures, they have over a hundred thousand in their military, nearly ninety thousand soldiers. Granted the politicians can always point to Turkey as a threat but I would be very curious how the new administration handles this.

Side effects of closing some of the nearly 500 military and releasing troops is not having jobs for them.

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#36

Post by fromtheoutside »

kalkin wrote: post #21
fuj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about forging documents to get accepted in the eurozone? Forging documents to get more loans? The rampant corruption on every level of the Greek society? [1] Obviously this is not politically correct, so downvotes are expected. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_and_corruption_in_G...

Politicians from parties who now get 3-4% of the vote lied years ago (to the Greek public as well as EU bankers), so let's take Greek workers' pensions, crush their unions, slash their social services, and offer no jobs or future to 60% of Greek young people. The bankers may not get their money anyway, since the debt is still increasing, but at least the Greeks* will get what they deserve! *may not apply to the elite…

Would be better to take this money from the Greek oligarchs and keep some level of social safety net. But isn't it up to the Greeks to make that happen?

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#37

Post by arethuza »

kalkin wrote: post #21
fuj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about forging documents to get accepted in the eurozone? Forging documents to get more loans? The rampant corruption on every level of the Greek society? [1] Obviously this is not politically correct, so downvotes are expected. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_and_corruption_in_G...

Politicians from parties who now get 3-4% of the vote lied years ago (to the Greek public as well as EU bankers), so let's take Greek workers' pensions, crush their unions, slash their social services, and offer no jobs or future to 60% of Greek young people. The bankers may not get their money anyway, since the debt is still increasing, but at least the Greeks* will get what they deserve! *may not apply to the elite…

Out of interest, where do you think the money to pay for pensions, social services and create jobs for young people will come from in Greece in the future?

Surely these all have to be set at a level that is actually sustainable by the Greek economy?

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#38

Post by functional_test »

gadders wrote: post #6

Smart. Does this mean I can have a vote and decide to not pay for any games from Steam now?

This sort of snark isn't constructive. The situation is obviously much more nuanced than this, and while this sort of reduction is cognitively convenient, it's not accurate nor useful.

For example, when the money was obviously not going to be repaid, but the Troika continued to lend them more -- at what point does the lender become at least partially responsible? Obviously I don't advocate irresponsible borrowing, but certainly irresponsible lending is also bad.

Ultimately, the bond holders are going to have to take a hair cut, or have their Euros devalued, because the Greek economy cannot possibly hope to repay its current debts. To think otherwise is to hope foolishly for the impossible (all questions of right or wrong aside).

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#39

Post by crdoconnor »

Shivetya wrote: post #35

It will be interesting to see if they can pare down some of Greece's military expenditures, they have over a hundred thousand in their military, nearly ninety thousand soldiers. Granted the politicians can always point to Turkey as a threat but I would be very curious how the new administration handles this. Side effects of closing some of the nearly 500 military and releasing troops is not having jobs for them.

I would assume so. This type of thing:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-spends-bailout-cash-eur...

...is against everything Syriza stands for.

Re: Valve Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Finance Minister of Greece

#40

Post by d23 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Varoufakis wrote a blog post two years ago on the history of political economic thought on the firm. It also delves into Valve's unique management culture [1]. "There is one last bastion of economic activity that proved remarkably resistant to the triumph of the market: firms, companies and, later, corporations. Think about it: market-societies, or capitalism, are synonymous with firms, companies, corporations. And y…

Well, from what I understand, the hierarchy is basically entirely political / tribal. It clearly works for them, but let's not idealize it as a utopian dream without the typical petty human inter-office struggles.
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