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The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

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Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#11

Post by rasz_pl »

patio11 wrote: post #2

One reason for this is the primacy of the workplace/school, to the total exclusion of any third place. If you don't have a job or are harassed out of your school, what does one do when not working? Japan does not have great ready-made answers to this question, for many people. (It seems like a silly question, but after six years here, I honestly struggled with it after leaving the day job. Where should one be at 3 PM…

> to the total exclusion of any third place

there were Arcades, but they pretty much all closed in the nineties

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#12

Post by ivanca »

rasz_pl wrote: post #11
patio11 wrote: post #2

One reason for this is the primacy of the workplace/school, to the total exclusion of any third place. If you don't have a job or are harassed out of your school, what does one do when not working? Japan does not have great ready-made answers to this question, for many people. (It seems like a silly question, but after six years here, I honestly struggled with it after leaving the day job. Where should one be at 3 PM…

> to the total exclusion of any third place there were Arcades, but they pretty much all closed in the nineties

Lets bring them back.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#13

Post by jhou2 »

I might be way off, but I tend to view this from an economic perspective in that these young (and not so young) shut-ins, in a pragmatic sense, don't need to work to survive. Their parents are able to provide for them all the basic needs for life - mostly shelter and food. It is a relatively small marginal expense to the parents who usually already have fair incomes. Until the parents pass away, which may take some time with Japan's famously long lifespans, most of these shut-ins will probably be alright.

Another aspect I find interesting is that the article is written mostly from an extrovert's perspective on culture. For an introvert, it seems like paradise to be a shut-in. I get fed, cared for, and I can focus on my internal life and interests, with no need to deal with others and all the problems they bring. As an introvert focused on myself and my own well-being, there seems nothing wrong with being a shut-in. Of course there are macro-economic arguments against it, but from a micro-economic point of view where I only care about my own needs, I would be satisfied with a shut-in life.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#14

Post by w1ntermute »

narrator wrote: post #10

Does anyone who was born and raised in Japan have anything to say about all this? I've read several threads over the last couple of days on this topic and it seems that the only people who comment on these kinds of stories are at best foreigners living in Japan. Is this a taboo topic for native born Japanese?

> Is this a taboo topic for native born Japanese?

No, it's just that there aren't that many native born Japanese who are fluent in English or visit Western websites.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#15

Post by SyneRyder »

bane wrote: post #5
patio11 wrote: post #2

One reason for this is the primacy of the workplace/school, to the total exclusion of any third place. If you don't have a job or are harassed out of your school, what does one do when not working? Japan does not have great ready-made answers to this question, for many people. (It seems like a silly question, but after six years here, I honestly struggled with it after leaving the day job. Where should one be at 3 PM…

I'm married into a South Korean family, and from my observation Korean society has less intense version of Japan's social collective mood (IIR it's written as '情' in both countries) It's really difficult to read about this kind of thing and maintain an appropriate feeling of cultural relativism without wanting go "oh Japan" or in my case "oh Korea". There's been many times with my family and friends a seemingly intra…

> "Then you end up with the strangest of all joiner group identities, the ones made up of "individuals" who strive obsessively to be "individuals" just exactly like all the rest of their clique-mates.

I think you just described the goth scene perfectly :) Though at least some of the goths are hyper aware of it & treat their "I'm like so different" goth uniform as a joke.

On a related note, going to a goth nightclub regularly is one of the best things I ever did. Being around people who are all similarly socially anxious & tending towards introvert/recluse (and with a shared interest in metal / synthpop) helped us all to become dramatically more social creatures.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#16

Post by wallflower »

One of the nice things about having a 9-5ish job is that I have to go into the office on a regular basis (not necessarily every day). Even just being in an environment (yes, open workspace) with some kind of energy/noise is good for someone who is so inwardly focused they tend to not need headphones in such an environment.

As someone who has done mini shut-ins of almost double-digit days at a time (with corresponding spike in News.YC activity), I believe that once you get off a regular schedule it can be hard to recover. Having some facsimile or proxy of human communication, be it Facebook or people 'liking' your News.YC submissions (or even worse comments), is like empty fast food calories for social attention - but still nourishing at some basic level.

Like they say for people who may be divorced, keeping busy with some project or activity is a smoke screen for feeling lonely. Ultimately, the smoke may clear and you'll feel intense spurts of sadness. Yet - your friends and acquaintances won't know because they think you're always doing interesting things with different circles of people. People tend to see what they want to see.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#17

Post by nichtich »

I think this is relevant. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8114547

As opposed to some other commentator, I don't think the shut-ins are actually content with being isolated. It's more like a trap that you fell into and don't know how to climb out of. If society don't try to help them, (some of) them may fell down even further, to the point of suicide.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#18

Post by mathattack »

patio11 wrote: post #2

One reason for this is the primacy of the workplace/school, to the total exclusion of any third place. If you don't have a job or are harassed out of your school, what does one do when not working? Japan does not have great ready-made answers to this question, for many people. (It seems like a silly question, but after six years here, I honestly struggled with it after leaving the day job. Where should one be at 3 PM…

It's tough too because social pressures and norms are much stricter in Japan than elsewhere. This contributes to both the stings of social alienation, and the unwillingness of parents to kick their kids out of the nest.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#19

Post by prawn »

code_duck wrote: post #9

This is of interest to me as a member of my family, here on the U.S. (totally non Japanese) fits the syndrome quite closely. As far as I can tell, a combination of social anxiety, depression, pressure, laziness and lack of pressure (enabling behavior from his parents) has led him to not work in over 20 years and live with his parents, socializing online but showing no interest/ability in socializing with people in pe…

I think we'll see more cases like this, but also we'll see technology providing people with new ways of functioning.

I think a lot of it is about inertia and always choosing the easier path. If your parents enable you to live without having to work, for a lot of people the ease overrides the benefits of work (independence, sense of worth, etc).

Down the track, more and more socialising will be digital, more shopping will be online and so on. Some people will exist publicly only as avatars bearing little resemblance to their physical selves.

Re: The Fight to Save Japan’s Young Shut-Ins

#20

Post by yrlson »

bane wrote: post #5
patio11 wrote: post #2

One reason for this is the primacy of the workplace/school, to the total exclusion of any third place. If you don't have a job or are harassed out of your school, what does one do when not working? Japan does not have great ready-made answers to this question, for many people. (It seems like a silly question, but after six years here, I honestly struggled with it after leaving the day job. Where should one be at 3 PM…

I'm married into a South Korean family, and from my observation Korean society has less intense version of Japan's social collective mood (IIR it's written as '情' in both countries) It's really difficult to read about this kind of thing and maintain an appropriate feeling of cultural relativism without wanting go "oh Japan" or in my case "oh Korea". There's been many times with my family and friends a seemingly intra…

Hikikomori are also well "networked" online and play the game of who is authentic and who is fake. Perhaps it is as popular as it is because it has become an identity.
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