Apple declares war on the entire PC industry • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#21

Post by crc32 » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:39 PM UTC

mikedouglas wrote: post #13

olliesaunders wrote: post #12

What is the article even talking about? Netbooks are destroying things? Netbooks are the best thing to happen for ages.

From the article: [Netbooks] are cannibalizing Windows PC sales at an alarming rate. By comparison, laptops commanded higher margins and average selling prices when their popularity started to increase. PC manufacturers -- and even Microsoft -- benefited from notebooks' reversing the trend of falling computer ASPs; for a time. By comparison, netbooks are a plague, because they dramatically lower ASPs and margins and…

have margins on hardware ever been that high in the world of the commodity PC?

Given that most netbooks now run XP, (and shortly should be shipping with Windows 7 given the focus on performance) how can they be "cannibalizing Windows PC sales". The whole quote makes no sense, unless the low margins on netbooks are being passed on to Microsoft.

edit: despite the title the actual premise of the article is that Apple are declaring war on Windows 7. Given that netbooks will shortly be running Windows 7, how are they a disadvantage for Microsoft - in reality, mass produced, low-margin cheap netbooks must surely be a huge worry for a high margin retailer like Apple.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#22

Post by heresyforme » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:43 PM UTC

MS is missing a huge opportunity. While Apple may be reaching the tech savvy and elite, MS needs to market to the "everyday average normal guy". Look at the Chevy "Like a friggin' rock" commercials. Is that guy going to buy some namby-pamby macbook if there's a real man's alternative somewhere?

Instead of two nerds making passive-aggressive beta-male comments to each other in the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials; imagine replacing the nerd with a Brett Farve type of guy. Not only is he an alpha male, but he's intelligent enough to be successful.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#23

Post by access_denied » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:46 PM UTC

junklight wrote: post #14

mikedouglas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: [Netbooks] are cannibalizing Windows PC sales at an alarming rate. By comparison, laptops commanded higher margins and average selling prices when their popularity started to increase. PC manufacturers -- and even Microsoft -- benefited from notebooks' reversing the trend of falling computer ASPs; for a time. By comparison, netbooks are a plague, because they dramatically lower ASPs and margins and…

They are "a plague" for hardware manufacturers. For the ordinary user - a great many of who only really use their computers to read email, access facebook and watch youtube clips - I suspect they are ideal.

I am an oldtime-A-fanboi. Netbooks are the first event that let me consider buying a PeeCee since when I decided to do A-miga instead of 386. And sooner or later I probably get one.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#24

Post by idlewords » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:52 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #20

Why are netbooks only the problem of the PC industry? Surely they "cannibalize" Mac sales just as they cannibalize PC sales. Except for the people who would buy Macs no matter what.

Apple sells a high-end product; anyone who might be tempted away by a netbook would likely have already been tempted away by a lower-cost PC. It's the same reason that inexpensive Japanese cars don't cannibalize BMW sales.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#25

Post by rdrimmie » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:54 PM UTC

habibur wrote: post #16

jacquesm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe you do. But I was wondering where apple would get their harddrives, screens, processors and other bits and pieces if they declare war on the entire PC industry. The only thing that differentiates a 'mac' from a 'microsoft windows computer' is the software, and the design.

These terms come from 80s and 90s when PC meant Intel/Windows and Mac was Mac. I had not seen this usage for some long time now. No wonder the newer generation who missed the PC/Mac war will find it very confusing.

Apple promotes the distinction between Macs and PCs in its extremely successful advertising campaign. Anyone who doesn't understand the difference is either ignorant of current computing culture or being willfully obtuse.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#26

Post by halostatue » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:57 PM UTC

heresyforme wrote: post #22

MS is missing a huge opportunity. While Apple may be reaching the tech savvy and elite, MS needs to market to the "everyday average normal guy". Look at the Chevy "Like a friggin' rock" commercials. Is that guy going to buy some namby-pamby macbook if there's a real man's alternative somewhere? Instead of two nerds making passive-aggressive beta-male comments to each other in the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials; im…

Apple may have already stepped up to that with the "Call me when you're ready to compromise" ad starring Patrick Warburton.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#27

Post by halostatue » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 1:58 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #24

Tichy wrote: post #20

Why are netbooks only the problem of the PC industry? Surely they "cannibalize" Mac sales just as they cannibalize PC sales. Except for the people who would buy Macs no matter what.

Apple sells a high-end product; anyone who might be tempted away by a netbook would likely have already been tempted away by a lower-cost PC. It's the same reason that inexpensive Japanese cars don't cannibalize BMW sales.

Also explaining why the Japanese car makers have built more expensive product; the two markets overlap but aren't the same.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#28

Post by gaius » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 2:01 PM UTC

heresyforme wrote: post #22

MS is missing a huge opportunity. While Apple may be reaching the tech savvy and elite, MS needs to market to the "everyday average normal guy". Look at the Chevy "Like a friggin' rock" commercials. Is that guy going to buy some namby-pamby macbook if there's a real man's alternative somewhere? Instead of two nerds making passive-aggressive beta-male comments to each other in the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials; im…

everyday average normal guy

Said guy's too busy listening to his iPod ;-)

Seriously, tho', Apple has simply chosen not to compete in many of the markets MS sells into. There's no Mac for gamers, for example, Apple simply aren't interested. They aren't interested in selling into corporate desktops either. There's no technical reason Apple couldn't flog 20,000 desktops to Boeing to use as Unix workstations, for example.

That's the secret, really. You don't have to be tech savvy or elite to use a Mac. You just have to be in a sector that Apple is interested in. A non-technical entry-level graphic designer is going to be using a Mac 'cos it's the right tool for the job, as is a hardcore geek who wants a decent Unix laptop.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#29

Post by greyman » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 2:04 PM UTC

mikedouglas wrote: post #13

olliesaunders wrote: post #12

What is the article even talking about? Netbooks are destroying things? Netbooks are the best thing to happen for ages.

From the article: [Netbooks] are cannibalizing Windows PC sales at an alarming rate. By comparison, laptops commanded higher margins and average selling prices when their popularity started to increase. PC manufacturers -- and even Microsoft -- benefited from notebooks' reversing the trend of falling computer ASPs; for a time. By comparison, netbooks are a plague, because they dramatically lower ASPs and margins and…

I don't agree with this snippet, at least it doesn't apply to me. I bought netbook, but I wouldn't buy "real laptop" if netbook didn't exist, so no cannibalization happened.

Moreover, I am not sure about that distinction. What exactly is the difference between netbook and co called "real laptop"? Missing DVD drive? Is there any principal difference?

As I see it, what happened was that Asus was able to create cheap small size laptop, and many people realized that this thing is really useful.

Re: Apple declares war on the entire PC industry

#30

Post by heresyforme » Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 2:06 PM UTC

halostatue wrote: post #26

heresyforme wrote: post #22

MS is missing a huge opportunity. While Apple may be reaching the tech savvy and elite, MS needs to market to the "everyday average normal guy". Look at the Chevy "Like a friggin' rock" commercials. Is that guy going to buy some namby-pamby macbook if there's a real man's alternative somewhere? Instead of two nerds making passive-aggressive beta-male comments to each other in the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials; im…

Apple may have already stepped up to that with the "Call me when you're ready to compromise" ad starring Patrick Warburton.

Agreed. Patrick Warburton, though manly looking, isn't quite the alpha male that a football star type represents. Heck, Warburton was the Tick; a live action comedy character based on a cartoon character for children and Puddy on Seinfeld. Not exactly the guy known for playing an alpha male.

Apple is for betas, plain and simple. MS is missing an opportunity to reach the alphas.