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Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

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Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#71

Post by eru »

ErikRogneby wrote: post #70
hibikir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just random vs random. Two extremely weak players will take hours to finish a won game, because the player with the major material advantage does not know how to win! When teaching kids, it's not uncommon to, after teaching them how to move all the pieces, spend time teaching them how to perform the most basic of mates: KQ vs K, KRR vs K, KR vs K. Only after those three are mastered we have a good opportunit…

This feels almost like a metaphor for teaching young people about anything... step 1:learn to play a game and the rules. Step 2: learn the implied rules for winning, and how to know when you are winning.

That's why game with victory points can be easier to teach.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#72

Post by libria »

justintbassett wrote: post #68

Oh wow, I thought it was a joke at first, my game was only a half-dozen moves: http://i.imgur.com/kmKQ2Wi.png

That position is close to the fastest mate, black in 2. Not something, you'd stumble upon in actual play, but if novices ever move that f pawn early, you can usually destroy that side.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#73

Post by ekianjo »

acadien wrote: post #7

Because check mate is a very small subset of possible moves at the end game, I'm guessing the vast majority of games will end(?) with 2 kings moving around randomly for all of time. This assumes most games will make it past the hump of mid game where its possible the king's motion will be limited and a checkmate can erroneously happen, I suspect this is a rare case as well. On a side note I wonder what kind of useful…

> what kind of useful information could be mined from a huge set of random-random games

Whether there is a real advantage to start with white instead of black ?

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#74

Post by libria »

halfcat wrote: post #50

I once wrote a chess engine that played completely random moves and let it play on the Internet Chess Club against humans for a day. It played 1/0 games (1 minute for all moves). The final result was 46 wins, 22 draws, and 446 losses. Here's a breakdown. * 446 losses by checkmate * 23 wins by time forfeit * 18 wins by resignation * 5 wins by disconnection forfeit * 15 stalemates * 5 draws by insufficient material * 2…

Those 15 stalemates were probably other people running bots :)

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#75

Post by npizzolato »

ekianjo wrote: post #73
acadien wrote: post #7

Because check mate is a very small subset of possible moves at the end game, I'm guessing the vast majority of games will end(?) with 2 kings moving around randomly for all of time. This assumes most games will make it past the hump of mid game where its possible the king's motion will be limited and a checkmate can erroneously happen, I suspect this is a rare case as well. On a side note I wonder what kind of useful…

> what kind of useful information could be mined from a huge set of random-random games Whether there is a real advantage to start with white instead of black ?

Does it matter if there is an advantage to playing white vs black if both players are playing completely randomly? It should only really matter if there is an advantage when both players are playing optimally.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#76

Post by ekianjo »

npizzolato wrote: post #75
ekianjo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what kind of useful information could be mined from a huge set of random-random games Whether there is a real advantage to start with white instead of black ?

Does it matter if there is an advantage to playing white vs black if both players are playing completely randomly? It should only really matter if there is an advantage when both players are playing optimally.

if completely random, you may prove that there is an empirical advantage to starting the game without taking in account the level of any player, because two players playing randomly should be equivalent. I'm not entirely sure, though.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#77

Post by PhoenixWright »

chrisoakman wrote: post #40

Never thought this comment would end up on HN when I wrote it ;) I remember writing this example and being mesmerized watching the games progress. I think I made an alternate version that speed up the time and opened a handful of browser tabs to watch the games. Most of them do end up in insufficient piece draws or the 50-move rule. Glad to see others are enjoying it :)

Surprised nobody has responded to you. Good job, I really enjoyed seeing your work.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#79

Post by bo1024 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #30
breuleux wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm guessing the vast majority of games will end(?) with 2 kings moving around randomly for all of time. Hah, that's what I got on my second run: http://i.imgur.com/joLf3BX.png The game stopped right there, though. Edit: Hah! Again! http://i.imgur.com/2ItU89S.png

This is a drawn game according to the rules of chess, since checkmate is impossible. Other draw conditions include: * Stalemate (=The side to move has no legal moves) * 50 moves in a row without any permanent changes happening ("permanent changes" means a pawn moving or a piece being captured) * Exactly the same game state occurs for the third time ("game state" is whose turn it is + status of castling ability + stat…

As I understand it, the threefold repetition rule does not mandate a draw, it just allows either player to claim a draw upon occurrence.

Re: Chess: Who will win in this riveting game of Math.random() vs. Math.random()?

#80

Post by mathrawka »

omegaham wrote: post #64
hibikir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just random vs random. Two extremely weak players will take hours to finish a won game, because the player with the major material advantage does not know how to win! When teaching kids, it's not uncommon to, after teaching them how to move all the pieces, spend time teaching them how to perform the most basic of mates: KQ vs K, KRR vs K, KR vs K. Only after those three are mastered we have a good opportunit…

I still don't know how to checkmate with two bishops. I mean, I've read how to do it, but if you stuck me in an endgame situation, I'd probably draw. Luckily, I have never actually had an endgame with a king and two bishops versus a king. Same thing with king, knight, and bishop.

It's always about creating a "box" where the king cannot get out of, and make the box smaller as you force the king onto the edge or corner, where you can finally get the mate move.
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