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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#191

Post by anonbanker »

anonbanker wrote: post #153
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

The first amendment must mean nothing to you.

I've been getting a kick out of watching the parent post go to -1 to +1 over and over again. seems like lots of people disagree whether or not the above comment was worth it.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#192

Post by jmccree »

jessaustin wrote: post #119
afiedler wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: IANAL) Reading through the history of the case[1], it looks like the District Court ruled that the Federal TSA officers involved were entitled to qualified immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The reasoning was that the TSA followed appropriated procedures and wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. In my opinion, that seems reasonable. The TSA only detained hi…

...the TSA... wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. This rings true to me. The TSA in general does not want people in custody. They know themselves that most of what they do is bullshit, so what would be the point? When I was delayed by TSA, they were eager to turn me over to LVPD, who, after a short conversation about the best way to deal with TSA bureaucracy and escape with mi…

The TSA "officers" do not have arrest power and are forbidden by policy from using force (to perhaps perform a citizens arrest if allowed in state for a state law violation), so they really don't have the ability to take anyone into "custody", hence calling for local police.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#193

Post by chrismcb »

zaroth wrote: post #70
yourad_io wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

No those cards aren't suspicious. And as I understand it, they were arguing TSA was wrong.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#194

Post by chrismcb »

zaroth wrote: post #186
nemo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are blaming the victim for having his rights violated. Thinking, "of course he shouldn't have had a flash card with the word 'bomb' on it, if you do that you'll have your rights violated" is blaming the wrong party, while accepting an unjust status quo.

There are certain things which will flag you for enhanced screening at airport security. Not following directions, for example. Nick didn't remove electronics from his carry-on which is what initially got him singled out ("behind the glass partition"). This happens all the time, completely mundane. Then during that screening they found his pockets were stuffed with paper with indistinguishable Arabic writing and Engl…

His rights were violated. Just as everyone else's is, the second TSA searched him. TSA continued to violate his rights by searching him further, then threatened him. They also claimed he was terrorist and asked the police to arrest him.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#195

Post by iwouldwager »

sarciszewski wrote: post #181
iwouldwager wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager that it was this bit: "it's the sort of cynicism that leads to [...] making sure your rights are respected"

Er, okay, what's wrong with that statement?

What you describe is doing everything you can in order to try to avoid a situation in which you might be required to flex your rights. How can you describe it as a strategy for "making sure your rights are respected"? It is on its face an attempt to make the question of whether you have rights or not a no-impact detail.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#196

Post by click170 »

hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

#3 is what really bothers me, and seems inexcusable.

I get it, liability is a bitch. But that's not a reason to refuse to admit guilt, that's the reason you shouldn't do the deed in the f*^king first place.

How are we going to grow and advance as a society when we can't even admit wrong-doing when there is sufficient evidence of a cockup? It's like trying to argue with Creationists.

I take responsibility for the mistakes I make, and I think a LOT less of people who do not.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#197

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

jmccree wrote: post #192
jessaustin wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...the TSA... wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. This rings true to me. The TSA in general does not want people in custody. They know themselves that most of what they do is bullshit, so what would be the point? When I was delayed by TSA, they were eager to turn me over to LVPD, who, after a short conversation about the best way to deal with TSA bureaucracy and escape with mi…

The TSA "officers" do not have arrest power and are forbidden by policy from using force (to perhaps perform a citizens arrest if allowed in state for a state law violation), so they really don't have the ability to take anyone into "custody", hence calling for local police.

The reason why they don't have arrest powers is because splitting up the particular duties involved in infringing liberties makes it impossible to pin it on anyone. The TSA can blame it on the locals, the locals can blame it on the TSA, and 9 times out of 10 they don't even need to find a patsy for a scapegoat.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#199

Post by peteretep »

zaroth wrote: post #53
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that! Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation? The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly…

    > I've taken several years of French in college, never had
    > a vocab set quite like that!
I also did several years of French, and learned the phrases: "maladie de la vache folle" and "fièvre aphteuse". This allows you to place when I was learning French, because you could see when those were in the newspaper. If I was learning French now, I suspect I'd have a similar vocab set.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#200

Post by lazaroclapp »

notahacker wrote: post #177
jacquesm wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're well into thoughtcrime territory here, and projected thoughtcrime at that in this case.

Nobody's suggesting that it should be a crime to trigger a metal detector whilst trying to board a flight with a checklist of words related to terrorism in one pocket and a book apparently accusing the US of being a "Rogue Nation" as further light reading material. They are suggesting it might be a sufficiently unusual set of circumstances to warrant waiting for a competent investigator to give the all clear. As enti…

The actions of the police bear explaining, however, regardless of how suspicious they though the actions of the traveler were. IANAL, but as I understand it, if police handcuff him, he was being arrested, which means the police failed to read him his Miranda Rights and to charge him with any crime. If this is so, isn't that either a crime on the part of the police themselves or at the very least a serious administrative violation? The alternative is that he was being detained for questioning, but is it really usual or accepted to detain someone for a long a period of time and handcuff them for questioning? (seems 20 minutes is considered already fairly long for this sort of detention: http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/arrests_and_... , though I can't verify the source ). The question here is under which law or authority can someone be hand-cuffed and deprived of their freedom - however briefly - just for having a bunch of cards with words and a book.

I mean, I am not kidding myself, the "threat of terrorism" has been used to justify far worse abuses, up to and including torture and extra-judicial prisons. But expected or not, this should be morally and legally indefensible.

Also, at a personal level, it makes me think that, should I decide to travel any time soon, my reference papers for work in computer systems' security, the book I am reading on the NSA/Snowden material and my textbook on introductory Chinese should all stay back home. Because "that sure looks like some suspicious literature right there, doesn't it?"

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