I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure • Hacker News Board

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#171

Post by oddevan » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:27 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #121

yourad_io wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) It's true on a global scale, not just in the Arabic context. As you immerse yourself in a language, you're encouraged to follow newspapers/articles/tv/shows/etc. It is entirely unreasonable to censor your own learning process. Take this unfortunately common headline: Death toll of Yemen anti-Houthi bomb blast rises to 49.[1] Now censor your knowledge: [? ?] of Yemen a…

You're not censoring your learning process by putting flash cards in your checked baggage and taking a book in your carry-on.

From the article: "Travelling by plane can be a long and grueling process under the best of circumstances. This makes it a good time for monotonous tasks, like trying to iron out some vocab for a language you're learning at college."

In other words: the flash cards are most useful to him in his carry-on so he can study while waiting for/during his flight. Putting them in his checked baggage (assuming he even checked a bag) would defeat the purpose.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#172

Post by hueving » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:38 PM UTC

ffn wrote: post #161

zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Thank God Nick didn't bring a dictionary. If he did, he would most likely not only be detained in a small jail for several hours, but probably sent to a secret underground torture chamber to be water-boarded. After all, he must obviously be planning a massive-scale nuclear / chemical attack on the United States as "after looking through the thick tome, dangerous words like 'chemical', 'nuclear', 'oil', 'president', a…

Look at the ratio. It's not that the suspicious words were present, it was that they accounted for more than 10% of the flash cards he had.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#173

Post by npizzolato » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:40 PM UTC

sebular wrote: post #52

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

Is it your critical thinking that equates having a novel about a bomb in your carry-on with handing a stack of Arabic flash cards with "bomb", "to kidnap", and "kill" directly to a security agent? Because I'm not sure how you could possibly think those two are equivalent. Your actions do not happen in a vacuum, and it should be obvious why his actions would raise a red flag for TSA officers. The illegal arrest by the Philadelphia officers certainly wasn't justified, but the TSA officers' actions most definitely were.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#174

Post by hueving » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:48 PM UTC

klunger wrote: post #42

thomasfl wrote: post #2

"Five years ago, the Philadelphia police thought that carrying Arabic-language flashcards was enough to warrant the arrest of an innocent traveler." From a norwegian standpoint, where police are not allowed to wear guns, it's fascinating to see how the answer to security problems is more police, harder prison sentences and more violence. What about increasing happiness? In northern Ireland they eventually got rid of…

As an American who lives in Norway, I understand just how confusing this may be to you. The difference, I have come to believe after living here for a few years, stems from a different perspective on long- and short-term interests. Americans are, in general, I think (please note this is my opinion and do not down vote me for making this observation) more likely to support solutions that appear to resolve the given is…

You're right about the desire for short term goals. However, only focusing on long term solutions is not a luxury the US has. It has made many enemies who are trying to actively harm US citizens. It does need better long term strategies to prevent future enemies, but it also needs to deal with the people that already believe their path to a wonderful afterlife is achieved via blowing themselves up in populated places.

Keep in mind the US is always going to be on someone's bad side as long as they assume the role of world watch dog. It's convenient for Norway to wash their hands of any messy killings, but they don't seem to care for the spread of ISIS either.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#175

Post by hueving » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #133

thanksgiving wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik. Hang on a minute. Here in the US, my tax dollars support your children. WIC and Food Stamps and school lunch programs which come from my tax dollars ensure your infants and children do not starve in case something happens to you or your income. As a parent, you get to claim tax deductions which means more money out of my pocket to cover f…

> As I see it, your children are not your property. The children belong to the community at large. There has been no country stupid enough to ever make such an outrageous claim, no matter how communist they were. For starters: Children are not property at all, not their parents, nor society at large. They belong to themselves, they're independent and they are people just like adults, not cattle or objects. Second, pa…

Well children certainly aren't independent in the US. They can't choose to smoke and drink. They also can't choose to stop attending school without pretty harsh punishments. They are effectively prisoners of society until they turn 18 (even though they still can't drink).

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#176

Post by dmix » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #129

dmix wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got secondary-screened upon arrival because: - I told the border guy I got paid via 'PayPal' and he had no idea what that was, they had to spend 20min Googling it - My friends friend paid for our plane tickets, so they grilled us why we didnt buy our own - I made a mistake on the customs claims sheet where I crossed something out and replaced it. Apparently they think this means you are trying to hide something and…

My solution is simple (if a bit of a cop out): I've decided not to visit the USA again until they retire the madness. If that means I'll never visit again then so be it. I used to go there several times per year and at some point the frustration over yet another confrontation with the 'first line of defense' boiled over into 'I don't actually have to be here' and I have spent my holiday money elsewhere ever since. It…

Same, my clients always want me to travel to SF (entirely paid for and everything) but now I rarely do unless it is really important.

The biggest reason is the frequent harassment I have went through going there on numerous occasions, not just by US but also coming back into Canada. But this is very much a quiet protest, same with you I presume, I'm not an activist. The true cost of their security theater is largely unreported IMO. I'd expect there are countless people like us not contributing to the US business world or tourism thx to overly-aggressive security.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#177

Post by notahacker » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:56 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #135

zaroth wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

We're well into thoughtcrime territory here, and projected thoughtcrime at that in this case.

Nobody's suggesting that it should be a crime to trigger a metal detector whilst trying to board a flight with a checklist of words related to terrorism in one pocket and a book apparently accusing the US of being a "Rogue Nation" as further light reading material. They are suggesting it might be a sufficiently unusual set of circumstances to warrant waiting for a competent investigator to give the all clear.

As entirely explicable as his actions might have been, this guy did an awful lot more to inadvertently provoke suspicion than the several people per day detained for questioning for being in a particular area at a particular time, and possibly even the same colour as the perpetrator. A few of them undoubtedly suffer the inconvenience of missed flights and public embarrassment too, and/or encounter more objectionable behaviour from law enforcement than a overuse of handcuffs and amateurish-sounding line of questioning.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#178

Post by hueving » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:57 PM UTC

janvidar wrote: post #169

jkot wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? I dont follow. Parents have right for due process, right to raise their own children and so on. Children also have some rights, those might colide wiuth rights of parents in some cases. Problem is that in Norway parents have ZERO rights. Norway have not signed relevant EU treaties for Child Protection. Once children is taken by social servies, there is were little chance for return. SS than bullies parents, force…

> Problem is that in Norway parents have ZERO rights. This is obviously not true. Norway has laws that safeguard both parents and children, and is in the process of ratifying the relevant Hague convention. Bear in mind that when you read or hear about these seemingly horrifying stories, you only hear one side of the story. This is due to very strict privacy laws protecting all parties.

Um, the horrifying side of the story is of the parents and the child. What other part of the story would be protected by privacy laws.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#179

Post by iwouldwager » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 10:59 PM UTC

sarciszewski wrote: post #167

thanksgiving wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry you're getting downvoted but this is absolutely right. Remember to never talk to the police. This sounds a little sarcastic but I promise you that it is not. Never, ever "help" the police, even if you are not a suspect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc The police do not have a duty to protect you [nytimes]. Why do you have a duty to help them? [nytimes] http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics…

I don't even know why that one got downvoted to oblivion.

I would wager that it was this bit:

"it's the sort of cynicism that leads to [...] making sure your rights are respected"

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#180

Post by hueving » Sun, Jan 25, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #47

adekok wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that millions of people a year travel, and don't have any problems. So you're most likely to be OK. The worrying part is that you don't know what will be "alerted" on. Flash cards? Pictures of your kids in the bath? You have no idea.

> The truth is that millions of people a year travel, and don't have any problems. He's not worried about being one of those that won't have any problems. He's worried about becoming one of those that did and that chance is way too high.

I don't think you understand how small the chance is. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than something like this happening.