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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#151

Post by vacri »

jkot wrote: post #43
intopieces wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that when you give the police an inch, they beat you to within that inch of your life. The system in place in most countries sounds horrifying when put into the context of the American policing system.

I understand where are you getting. But this is wrong battleground. Even most peace-full country, will have airport security with some sort of right to detain people. For example they could claim his passport is fake, and detain him until he proves his identity otherwise. This case does not really solve anything. With more similar cases, parliament just passes new law: Airport has special security rule, is not US soi…

This guy got $5.000/hour

Per hour in jail. Not including the time in the airport detention, the missed flight, the missed journey, and all the hours spent preparing and dealing with the legal case.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#152

Post by vacri »

Max_Mustermann wrote: post #105
zaroth wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that! Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation? The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly…

Don't you think it's more likely to want to have a conversation about terrorism with people that speak arabic, especially in the US where it must be a constant burden for the Arabs after 9/11? On a 80 words deck having 10 words related to a very relevant news and discussion topic strikes you as weird? You didn't learn how to say bomb, kill, kidnap etc after years of learning french?

"years of learning French" is not, however, "at the same time you're learning simple words like 'fat', 'thin', 'pink', and 'summer'".

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#153

Post by anonbanker »

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

The first amendment must mean nothing to you.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#154

Post by intopieces »

DanBC wrote: post #150
intopieces wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of the things he did justifies illegal detention? Remember, he was held without charges.

Nothing justifies the illegal detention. People aren't saying that it was right for him to be illegally held. What they are saying is that he was not arrested for "learning Arabic", but for handing cards with the English words "bomb", "terrorist" etc to security screeners, who called the police who then illegally arrested him. That's a different story to the one presented. It's still an unjustifiable arrest; he still…

>But why did the ACLU not mention the content of the flashcards?

Because:

>Nothing justifies the illegal detention

So the content of the flash cards is not relevant, but instead an attempt to justify his detention, to make the reader think the TSA made an honest mistake when, in fact, what they did was not an honest mistake.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#155

Post by DanBC »

mcguire wrote: post #78
Beltiras wrote: post #7

I'm a bit worried about my trip to the US in the spring. I'm going to make a point of having a hair cut, not carrying any suspicious books, cultivate a super submissive nature against authority figures (of which I carry a well-deserved suspicion) and practive my TSA-smile. Shouldn't have to be that way, but I really don't want to give any indication I am anything but White Bread.

Exactly how often do you go out of your way to aggravate police, customs and immigration officials in other countries?

Like that woman who wanted to use the TSA's approved screening process for her pumped breast milk; who had a letter from the TSA explaining what that screening process was and that it was okay to screen breast milk using this process?

Because she didn't have much fun.

http://rt.com/usa/154672-tsa-breast-milk-settlement/

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#156

Post by Thetawaves »

sebular wrote: post #52
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

It is fairly interesting that the rest of the people replying to you find it suspicious that somebody is carrying flash cards with the words "terrorist" and "bomb". They make no mention that there was no specific threat, and no bomb or other actually illegal possessions. There is no way you cannot criticize their faculties for judgement.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#157

Post by skeolawn »

gaius wrote: post #58
underdown wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps Ireland's spending was artifically high? Your bias for government intervention is showing.

I've been accused of many thing in my time, but never of favouring government intervention... However you slice it, Ireland was enjoying a quality of life that could not be sustained, paying for it with EU subsidies, which enabled them to charge less tax than running their state really cost, which they used to lure jobs from the UK. Then when the money ran out, those jobs went to Poland or other lower-cost locations,…

I think it's fair to say that in recent times "Ireland was enjoying a quality of life that could not be sustained" but the explanation you offered is incorrect. In reality it was based on a property bubble and cheap investment capital due to artificially low interest rates engineered by the chief eurocrats. Go back a little further and the explanation for increasing employment in the 90s is based on having a young, well educated and underemployed population just as globalization was really kicking off.

Ireland joined the EU in 1973. If "subsidies" and "job luring" are the explanation, I'd have expected to see more progress way back then.

I'm not sure where you're going with your arguments that it was all based on "EU subsidies" and "luring jobs", but since others may read this I wanted to correct the record.

edit: it is true that the UK lent money to the Republic of Ireland in order to bail out UK banks with massive exposure to the property bubble - a bubble created in large part by the reckless practices of those very same banks. That loan has to be paid back by Irish tax payers.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#158

Post by DanBC »

neilcrj wrote: post #147
DanBC wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you honestly not see the difference between having a book that has the word bomb in it and having a set of 80 hand-written cards with the words "bomb", “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound" (among others) on them, and handing those cards to security agents? Any reasonable person knows that those words will cause alarm in security agents. Why chose to handwr…

He didn't "choose" to hand them to security agents, he was asked to empty his pockets, which contained the flash cards.

Whenever I've been through TSA screening I empty my pockets to a tray.

This report says "I took the set of flashcards from my pocket and handed them to the officers."

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#159

Post by kragen »

zaroth wrote: post #70
yourad_io wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

> Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here.

Society's job is to spot outliers and oddities and protect and support them from thoughtless bullying and cruelty; TSA's job is to support that by preventing violence in transportation.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#160

Post by DanBC »

intopieces wrote: post #154
DanBC wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing justifies the illegal detention. People aren't saying that it was right for him to be illegally held. What they are saying is that he was not arrested for "learning Arabic", but for handing cards with the English words "bomb", "terrorist" etc to security screeners, who called the police who then illegally arrested him. That's a different story to the one presented. It's still an unjustifiable arrest; he still…

>But why did the ACLU not mention the content of the flashcards? Because: >Nothing justifies the illegal detention So the content of the flash cards is not relevant, but instead an attempt to justify his detention, to make the reader think the TSA made an honest mistake when, in fact, what they did was not an honest mistake.

The court documents claim that TSA arrest / detention was reasonable and he got his payout for the police arrest / detention. The documents state clearly that the TSA action was reasonable because of the content of the cards.

This headline - "I was arrested for learning Arabic" is almost dishonest.

EDIT: as I have said elsewhere in this thread I think that he should not have been arrested. I'm not agreeing with the way he was treated. This post is just stating what the court documents say, as I understand them.

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