Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 238 posts

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#141

Post by lisper »

jessaustin wrote: post #119
afiedler wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: IANAL) Reading through the history of the case[1], it looks like the District Court ruled that the Federal TSA officers involved were entitled to qualified immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The reasoning was that the TSA followed appropriated procedures and wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. In my opinion, that seems reasonable. The TSA only detained hi…

...the TSA... wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. This rings true to me. The TSA in general does not want people in custody. They know themselves that most of what they do is bullshit, so what would be the point? When I was delayed by TSA, they were eager to turn me over to LVPD, who, after a short conversation about the best way to deal with TSA bureaucracy and escape with mi…

Minimal fines??? Why would you need to pay any fines?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#142

Post by santacluster »

zaroth wrote: post #70
yourad_io wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

> Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review.

I seriously hope that is a carelessly worded interpretation on your part.

Because that is one scary concept.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#143

Post by intopieces »

zaroth wrote: post #60
hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Which of the things he did justifies illegal detention? Remember, he was held without charges.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#144

Post by DanBC »

saraid216 wrote: post #132
jkot wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? I dont follow. Parents have right for due process, right to raise their own children and so on. Children also have some rights, those might colide wiuth rights of parents in some cases. Problem is that in Norway parents have ZERO rights. Norway have not signed relevant EU treaties for Child Protection. Once children is taken by social servies, there is were little chance for return. SS than bullies parents, force…

> Parents have right for due process, I can agree with that. > right to raise their own children and so on. Says who? Why, precisely? Where is this right enumerated and what is its basis? > Imagine Alabama would start abducting children of people who just moved in, because their parenting is not religous enough. But the issue with this is religious discrimination and a lack of separation between church and state. The…

http://www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Publication-pdfs/UNCRC_PR...

> Convinced that the family, as the fundamental group of society and the natural environment for the growth and well-being of all its members and particularly children, should be afforded the necessary protection and assistance so that it can fully assume its responsibilities within the community,

> Recognizing that the child, for the full and harmonious development of his or her personality, should grow up in a family environment, in an atmosphere of happiness, love and understanding,

And Article 5

> States Parties shall respect the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents or, where applicable, the members of the extended family or community as provided for by local custom, legal guardians or other persons legally responsible for the child, to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving capacities of the child, appropriate direction and guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the present Convention.

There are reasons why states can intervene in family life. But those interventions need to be in the child's best interest; and they need to be proportionate.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Article 12

> No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Also probably a bit of article 16.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#145

Post by vacri »

yourad_io wrote: post #112
zaroth wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) I took several years of [French] foreign language, never did I ever learn those vocab words. What a world we live in. "Ou est les toilettes?" "Un pain au chocolat et un cafe s'il vous plait." ... "Est-ce une bombe dans votre sac à dos?" It's a fantastic Onion-worthy title, but IMO Nick was inconvenienced for his lack of critical thinking skills on this one. By compariso…

> "Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) It's true on a global scale, not just in the Arabic context. As you immerse yourself in a language, you're encouraged to follow newspapers/articles/tv/shows/etc. It is entirely unreasonable to censor your own learning process. Take this unfortunately common headline: Death toll of Yemen anti-Houthi bomb blast rises to 49.[1] Now censor your knowledge: [? ?] of Yemen a…

If someone is a genuine threat, you can bet your ass he won't be carrying "suspicious" flashcards in airports.

It's a myth that all dangerous criminals would never make a simple mistake.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#146

Post by khuey »

kmonsen wrote: post #85

What happens to your flight tickets in this situation? Do the airline give you a ticket to the next flight or do they just think you are too late for the current one and bad luck?

The airlines are generally accommodating.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#147

Post by neilcrj »

DanBC wrote: post #71
sebular wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

Can you honestly not see the difference between having a book that has the word bomb in it and having a set of 80 hand-written cards with the words "bomb", “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound" (among others) on them, and handing those cards to security agents? Any reasonable person knows that those words will cause alarm in security agents. Why chose to handwr…

He didn't "choose" to hand them to security agents, he was asked to empty his pockets, which contained the flash cards.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#148

Post by DanBC »

Max_Mustermann wrote: post #105
zaroth wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that! Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation? The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly…

Don't you think it's more likely to want to have a conversation about terrorism with people that speak arabic, especially in the US where it must be a constant burden for the Arabs after 9/11? On a 80 words deck having 10 words related to a very relevant news and discussion topic strikes you as weird? You didn't learn how to say bomb, kill, kidnap etc after years of learning french?

I know a few people who speak Arabic as a first language.

Perhaps weirdly we don't chitchat about bombs and death and murder. We talk about the soccer and about the roadworks and about what they watched on telly and how their allotment-garden is doing.

Why, when you hear "Arabic", do you think a natural topic of concersation is "terrorism"?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#149

Post by keerthiko »

I grew up in Oman, and my Indian passport is issued from there. It's mentioned as a place of issue, but most TSA offices have never heard of "Oman." However, I have a few entry/exit stamps from Oman (where my parents live), which obviously involves some Arabic. When traveling in the US, if these pages get seen, I'm pulled for special screening and emptying out my baggage.

Back in college I sometimes rushed to the airport straight after finals week and packing my dorm room, so I may not have shaved a couple days, and I was almost guaranteed to have to deal with an extra hour of special checking (which I would probably have to have dealt with anyway, so it was more important to reach the airport early than to shave). They'd make me go get my checked luggage and empty every suitcase and identify every item there and I'd have to pack it all back again. At least the random stuff they'd confiscate like pickled lemons from my mom would create extra space in my bag making it a bit easier to pack in a hurry.

I've never actually been detained or questioned or made to miss a flight because of this, but I think that's just dumb luck and not because the process is just or reasonable. It's one thing I do not miss at all since leaving the states, airport security in America.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#150

Post by DanBC »

intopieces wrote: post #143
zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Which of the things he did justifies illegal detention? Remember, he was held without charges.

Nothing justifies the illegal detention. People aren't saying that it was right for him to be illegally held. What they are saying is that he was not arrested for "learning Arabic", but for handing cards with the English words "bomb", "terrorist" etc to security screeners, who called the police who then illegally arrested him.

That's a different story to the one presented. It's still an unjustifiable arrest; he still deserves his compensation and the police must learn the lesson.

But why did the ACLU not mention the content of the flashcards?

Edit: I supplied a corrective upvote. I don't know why your reasonable question was downvoted.

Post reply on HN