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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#51

Post by pmorici »

hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Seems like a lame outcome. If there is no admission or finding of wrong doing it really feels like there was no accountability whatsoever. The $25k is a rounding error and looks more like a token payment than anything else. They don't even have to make that paragraph part of their permanent police training.

edit: How did they manage to drag this out for 5 years and still not have an actual judge or jury rule on this.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#52

Post by sebular »

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security?

When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and precedents being set, that's how you wake up to discover you've completely lost freedoms that your parents took for granted.

And you go even further, talking about how citizens should have to consider how their actions are going to be perceived by low-paid, under-educated TSA agents, rather than giving a moment's pause to wonder why low-paid, under-educated TSA agents are handling security for our nation's airports.

Question nothing, blame the victim. Superb critical thinking.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#53

Post by zaroth »

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that!

Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation?

The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly to the agent is if the top cards were in the order "Bomb", "Touting", "Terrorist".

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#54

Post by throwawayaway »

gaius wrote: post #39
iopq wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh what's that, some country has lower taxes and out-competes your country in the marketplace? How dare they lure businesses by making their country more business-friendly!

Except their rates were artificially low, propped by EU subsidies, and when the wheels came off, it was The English to the rescue, again http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/ar...

> Britain has given a back-door bailout worth around £10 billion to the Republic of Ireland in an arrangement that was never explicitly approved by Parliament, it can be revealed.

How alarming! Aaand in the very next sentence:

> The money has been pumped into Ulster Bank, a subsidiary of the state-owned Royal Bank of Scotland which was rescued by a public cash injection of £45 billion five years ago.

Somehow your glorious Times seems to have confused the Republic of Ireland with RBS's subsidiary Ulster Bank.

An analogy should not be necessary. The difference between a country and a subsidiary of one our own country's banks should be quite obvious to you.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#55

Post by underdown »

gaius wrote: post #39
iopq wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh what's that, some country has lower taxes and out-competes your country in the marketplace? How dare they lure businesses by making their country more business-friendly!

Except their rates were artificially low, propped by EU subsidies, and when the wheels came off, it was The English to the rescue, again http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/ar...

Or perhaps Ireland's spending was artifically high? Your bias for government intervention is showing.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#57

Post by zaroth »

sebular wrote: post #52
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

Not in carry-on. Passed a stack of cards directly to an agent. Almost comically stupid. TSA's job is to alert on oddities. A stack of cards with Arabic on one side and English words like "bomb" and "terrorist"... This takes the cake.

TSA alerts as they should, they are not qualified to do any more. The police should have called this guy an idiot and told him to get lost but it doesn't surprise me that it was beyond their pay grade and it took a few hours to call in a unit that could actual evaluate this guy.

Read Section I of the court doc and this is actually a reasonable edge-case [1]. Not to mention the recent travel to the middle east!

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/george-v-reh...

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#58

Post by gaius »

underdown wrote: post #55
gaius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except their rates were artificially low, propped by EU subsidies, and when the wheels came off, it was The English to the rescue, again http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/ar...

Or perhaps Ireland's spending was artifically high? Your bias for government intervention is showing.

I've been accused of many thing in my time, but never of favouring government intervention...

However you slice it, Ireland was enjoying a quality of life that could not be sustained, paying for it with EU subsidies, which enabled them to charge less tax than running their state really cost, which they used to lure jobs from the UK. Then when the money ran out, those jobs went to Poland or other lower-cost locations, and they went cap in hand begging to England for more money.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#59

Post by throwawayaway »

gaius wrote: post #58
underdown wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps Ireland's spending was artifically high? Your bias for government intervention is showing.

I've been accused of many thing in my time, but never of favouring government intervention... However you slice it, Ireland was enjoying a quality of life that could not be sustained, paying for it with EU subsidies, which enabled them to charge less tax than running their state really cost, which they used to lure jobs from the UK. Then when the money ran out, those jobs went to Poland or other lower-cost locations,…

> they went cap in hand begging to England for more money.

You have no evidence of this, the link you posted earlier was a bailout of RBS. You'll have to do better than that.

EDIT incidentally, if the jobs were lured from Britain why did they ultimately go to Poland?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#60

Post by zaroth »

hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent.

As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for missing your flight but I do expect TSA to flag me if I literally hand the agent a stack of cards with "bomb" and "terrorist" written on them.

It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief.

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