China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’ • Hacker News Board

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#41

Post by narrator » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

The whole Chinese way of doing things makes me think that most people live in enormous Skinner boxes. It makes me reflect on my own media consumption. What messages am I receiving? How are processing those messages affecting my view of the world? What experiences or opportunities am I missing out on because of the messages I am receiving and processing and how they are affecting my internal model of the world?

Look at people who get addicted to MMOs like World of Warcraft for example. They voluntarily limit themselves to the messages they receive from the game and this influences their behavior significantly.

The proof that control of these messages and what message are received by people is an extremely valuable commodity is that advertising is a multi-trillion dollar industry.

Even if everything was perfectly truthful, there is only a small amount of time for people to digest and absorb the world with their limited perception. Thus, the control of which limited set of messages that people receive is also a huge source of power and why a commercial in the super bowl is worth more than a random banner ad on some no-name website.

Reddit, Twitter and most social media are attempts to optimize this messaging problem.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#42

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:32 PM UTC

zhte415 wrote: post #38

What stops meaningful visits from visitors within China to sites hosted outside of China today is, thanks to the prevalence of CDNs, the CDN. Need a font? Google fonts? Blocked. Need a picture? Instagram? Blocked. Need a video? Youtube? Blocked. Need a CSS sheet? Use a CDN? Blocked or really slow. Visiting a text-based website hosted outside of China [from within China] is usually pretty good. No VPN necessary. CDNs…

I imagine the things you list are, to the CCP, a feature and not a bug. The harder it is for Chinese to leave the censorship bubble the better. I imagine the end-game for China is a completely cut off internet. Once they have enough domestic services it'll be safe to do. They're just not there yet.

My organization was forced to deploy a server in China with specialized content for the Chinese. That server and its content is under the CCP's censorship and control, and being an autocratic non-democratic government means that chances of reform are virtually nill. We're allowed, by the good graces of the CCP, to have a presence in China that they control. This is their end game. Controlled foreign sites hosted locally and international internet either completely cut off or just allowed for certain companies and elites.

Autocracy and freedom of information just don't work. The Chinese people, who are very nationalist, have chosen the former and are quite proud of it, often citing the "decadent west" as something they don't want to become and using the word "democracy" as an insult. Let's stop acting surprised about censorship in China. Some people prefer to be ruled by an iron fist.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#43

Post by tiatia » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

This blocking shit is so annoying. The Chinese shoot themself in the right knee, then in the left knee and say, look, we have the biggest balls! Yes, you may have the biggest balls, but you can't walk anymore dumbo!

I experienced that feeding someone his own poison is often the best medicine. Providers world wide should block email access to all China based email for a month or two. Would be a picture for the gods having the Chinese executives and CEOs abroad cut off from their email and crying "foul!" "foul!".

This being said, the Chinese are pretty good in what they are doing. What will it buy them in the long run? Even big Chinese companies in China use VPN to access the internet. The final result will be that China won't have internet but something like an intranet. Good luck with that!

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#44

Post by tiatia » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

greatabel wrote: post #7

My old company has its dev team in Shanghai, we used multiple VPNs: openvpn and a Cisco vpn; we setted them on company's router.Normally it's ok except some special days like every year's session.

Your experience may be old. VPNs are getting worse every day.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#45

Post by tiatia » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #21

greatabel wrote: post #7

My old company has its dev team in Shanghai, we used multiple VPNs: openvpn and a Cisco vpn; we setted them on company's router.Normally it's ok except some special days like every year's session.

Isn't that illegal in China? Or not? Are there any repercussions if you get caught evading in one way or another their national firewall?

Most Chinese give a f. if something is illegal or not. Look at he xray machines that you are supposed to put your luggage in before you enter the subway. Many Chinese just walk by and ignore the complaining security girls.

VPNs? Well, companies need internet and EVERY company in China used them. It is so stupid and insane at the same time.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#46

Post by Schweigi » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

greatabel wrote: post #7

My old company has its dev team in Shanghai, we used multiple VPNs: openvpn and a Cisco vpn; we setted them on company's router.Normally it's ok except some special days like every year's session.

Some provider (like NTT) also offer MPLS lines. The company I work for rents one which goes directly to Europe. Those are also not affected by the firewall and in general much faster than normal VPN setups.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#47

Post by tiatia » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #39

Could they ever possibly break an SSH tunnel over port 80/443?

Sometimes. It depends on the day, time, location. Many things. A website may be blocked today but not tomorrow. Even gmail (web interface) worked on SOME days. It may be blocked in Shanghai but not in Beijing and vice versa.

Port 443? Good chance if you have you own IP address that it works most of the time so so. But I have a 50% packet loss. Facebook and google (?) rarely worked over ssh.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#48

Post by c1sc0 » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #41

The whole Chinese way of doing things makes me think that most people live in enormous Skinner boxes. It makes me reflect on my own media consumption. What messages am I receiving? How are processing those messages affecting my view of the world? What experiences or opportunities am I missing out on because of the messages I am receiving and processing and how they are affecting my internal model of the world? Look a…

Agreed 100%. The media you (choose to?) consume has a profound influence on how you think / feel / react. The only way to win this game is not to participate. But that makes you a loner, "anti-social" etc ...

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#49

Post by tiatia » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #2

This is the reason I no longer work from Shanghai. Attempting to do anything in the tech spave while constantly playing cat and mouse got to be such a productivity killer that it was becoming impossible to work. You'd rarely know if failures were because of some Firewall nonsense or something else. It's a tragedy really. I am one guy, but I've since hired several developers and my little company is gaining traction -…

So true. Communication communication communication. 1. They don't have internet. They have something like an intranet. If you want to use baidu or oder on taobao, it will work. 2. Phone calls. Forget skype or VOIP. Make a big down payment on you phone for international calls and you can call abroad. Kind of. 3. Postal mail. Good luck relying on that, especially from mail abroad. Best chances to use an express service (Fedex etc.) and pay the price.

Re: China Cracks Down on VPN Services After Censorship System ‘Upgrade’

#50

Post by pnathan » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #41

The whole Chinese way of doing things makes me think that most people live in enormous Skinner boxes. It makes me reflect on my own media consumption. What messages am I receiving? How are processing those messages affecting my view of the world? What experiences or opportunities am I missing out on because of the messages I am receiving and processing and how they are affecting my internal model of the world? Look a…

You mean optimize the messages to more perfectly craft a filter? :)