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A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

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Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#21

Post by RyanMcGreal »

lionhearted wrote: post #14
jasonlbaptiste wrote: post #2

Ever wonder how to put yourself closer to the front of the line to hell? This is a good article to read if you're interested. I'm all for capitalism and making money, but this is just wrong. Sure you can say, well people are dumb enough! Yeah, most people are dumb, but that doesn't mean you go ripping them off.

> I'm all for capitalism and making money, but this is just wrong. I think this a problem that people have - they (somehow) equate corruption/taking advantage of people/kickbacks with "capitalism". This is not the case - I've spent some a bit of time in more socialist and communist countries, and these things seem to happen even more there. People trying to take advantage of others happens regardless of economic or p…

Capitalism flat-out can't function without a reasonably clear, consistent and fair application of the rule of law (a painfully and repeatedly demonstrated fact that neoliberal and libertarian fundamentalists tend to forget).

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#22

Post by zach »

amalcon wrote: post #9
blhack wrote: post #6

I wish that firefox would start charging. Something like a $100 for a 1000 seat license or something similar. Why? Because when I go to one of my bosses and say "I think we try and transition away from IE. Here, this is Firefox, it is free and it is wonderful", their reaction is "Free?!" and visions of shitty freeware from the 90s fill their heads. In order to keep us geeks happy, they could offer a source distributi…

The problem is that, as soon as they start charging, they open themselves up to liability. That's actually exactly what your bosses want: someone to take the liability.

Well, they want a business relationship. If I give you money for something, there is a social, legal and economic expectation that you have an obligation to give me whatever it is you took the money for.

Or, to flip it around, beggars can't be choosers, and since they're executives...

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#23

Post by Periodic »

turkishrevenge wrote: post #18
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #16

all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that. the beauty of capitalism is that no one (even you smart geeks) gets to decide what the price of things are. you live and die by consumer demand.

"all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that." Really? Despite the fact that what the site in question is doing is blatantly predatory in nature? I would be willing to wager that it heavily depends on the naivety of new (read: probably elderly) computer users in order to make money. If you're…

I think you two need to separate out what you are talking about.

I absolutely agree that "they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that.". However, I also agree that "what the site in question is doing is blatantly predatory in nature".

I would say that there is no transgression in selling these services. However, they should be held liable for deceptive and predatory marketing practices. These things are wonderfully taken care of by the market and consumers. You see, consumers got together and formed an organization to look for people who are trying to take advantage of them and then kick their asses if they don't stop. I believe in most countries it's called a government.

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#24

Post by omouse »

blhack wrote: post #6

I wish that firefox would start charging. Something like a $100 for a 1000 seat license or something similar. Why? Because when I go to one of my bosses and say "I think we try and transition away from IE. Here, this is Firefox, it is free and it is wonderful", their reaction is "Free?!" and visions of shitty freeware from the 90s fill their heads. In order to keep us geeks happy, they could offer a source distributi…

It wouldn't be a "seat license", it would be a redistribution fee or something. They really should have a version for businesses.

Actually, since it's legal, you could start your own company that sells Firefox to businesses. I think the only requirement is that you can't call it Firefox but have to call it something else (trademarks or something).

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#25

Post by omouse »

turkishrevenge wrote: post #18
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #16

all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that. the beauty of capitalism is that no one (even you smart geeks) gets to decide what the price of things are. you live and die by consumer demand.

"all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that." Really? Despite the fact that what the site in question is doing is blatantly predatory in nature? I would be willing to wager that it heavily depends on the naivety of new (read: probably elderly) computer users in order to make money. If you're…

I'm pretty sure the Firefox license allows it to be sold. The only legal problem here is that the people are using the name Firefox which is trademarked by Mozilla Corp.

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#26

Post by nazgulnarsil »

turkishrevenge wrote: post #18
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #16

all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that. the beauty of capitalism is that no one (even you smart geeks) gets to decide what the price of things are. you live and die by consumer demand.

"all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that." Really? Despite the fact that what the site in question is doing is blatantly predatory in nature? I would be willing to wager that it heavily depends on the naivety of new (read: probably elderly) computer users in order to make money. If you're…

monopolies only happen because of government enforcement. no price fixing has ever been maintained in history that was not supported by the government. If you have a counter example I would love to hear it because I have done considerable searching on the subject. you're talking about corporatism, plain and simple.

as far as being blatantly predatory, unless the site actually lies there isn't a problem. if telling half truths is morally wrong then you have some bigger demons to grapple with than someone selling firefox (car industry, fashion industry, healthcare industry, it never ends).

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#27

Post by KiwiNige »

inklesspen wrote: post #15
amalcon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, as soon as they start charging, they open themselves up to liability. That's actually exactly what your bosses want: someone to take the liability.

Does Microsoft take liability for any of their software? The Windows XP EULA states "Except for any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if the Software does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty, and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable law, even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose." It goes on to state that the only re…

And yet all Software needs to be upgraded before Microsoft stops "supporting" it. In 10 years of using their software in the industry I have never had any actual support from Microsoft.

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#28

Post by drusenko »

inklesspen wrote: post #15
amalcon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, as soon as they start charging, they open themselves up to liability. That's actually exactly what your bosses want: someone to take the liability.

Does Microsoft take liability for any of their software? The Windows XP EULA states "Except for any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if the Software does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty, and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable law, even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose." It goes on to state that the only re…

just because the contract says that doesn't necessarily make it legally enforceable. plenty of contracts disclaim all implied warranties, yet there are plenty of situations in which that disclaimer is not enforceable (and liability is).

Re: A Tour Of A “Pay to Download Firefox” Site

#30

Post by jrockway »

omouse wrote: post #25
turkishrevenge wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all the moral righteousness is pretty funny/sad at the same time. they're charging for access to their call center basically. I don't really see anything wrong with that." Really? Despite the fact that what the site in question is doing is blatantly predatory in nature? I would be willing to wager that it heavily depends on the naivety of new (read: probably elderly) computer users in order to make money. If you're…

I'm pretty sure the Firefox license allows it to be sold. The only legal problem here is that the people are using the name Firefox which is trademarked by Mozilla Corp.

It is Firefox, though. I can sell a used Ford car and advertise it as such, even though Ford is not my trademark.
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