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The rise of fake engine noise

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#291

Post by hawleyal »

baddox wrote: post #85
baldeagle wrote: post #22

I drive a Leaf and a Volt, both technically electric cars. The sprinting power of an electric is pretty good, I often take modded civics off the line (stoplight) in the Leaf; the point being that electric cars can quickly move to a spot you don't anticipate them. The Volt has a 'pedestrian warning horn' that, when engaged by the driver, gently and rapidly beeps the horn to draw attention to the Volt. Since it is enga…

I'm torn with the noise situation with EVs. On one hand, I obviously recognize the importance of pedestrians being made aware of nearby automobiles, especially those with vision impairment. But on the other hand, I feel that automobiles making constant loud noise is an antipattern. The reason that cars have always made constant loud noise isn't to notify pedestrians—it's because gasoline engines produce a lot of wast…

I would generally agree about the origin of noises and their alternate purposes.

However, I would also suggest that it is a very strange, unearthly, or extrordinary phenomenon to have such a massive and fast-moving thing traversing in such silence.

For example, there are not elephants that travel so silently that they may accidentally trample rodents underfoot.

Alternatively, though, outerspace and underwater, things are much less certain regarding the danger of large masses moving quickly.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#292

Post by ncza »

arthurfm wrote: post #279
pluma wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but absolutes are rarely used in their literal meaning. "Silence" doesn't refer to the absence of any noise, it refers to a very low level of noise. The absence of any noise at all is very difficult to achieve (although you can come close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXVGIb3bzHI ). The same goes for other absolutes like "black" (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack is arguably "blacker" than other "…

> silence is not the absence of noise, it's just the presence of a significantly smaller amount of noise. Thanks for your explanation. Considering that other animals can produce or hear sounds that humans can't, I guess I shouldn't have used the word 'any'? :) When I think of silence I tend to think of passively cooled heatsinks or cases for PCs that do not produce any noise that I can hear (even up close). Compare t…

Thank you both very much for your comments. With English as a second language it is easy to never learn the true meaning of words. I feel quite stuck with my current level for several years already and tiny bits like these are great improvements. Cheers!

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#293

Post by JetSpiegel »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #176
JetSpiegel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is part of what makes a car feel alive, playful, and eager. IOW, fun. Car porn, literally.

Jings. In what world does anything being fun become 'literally pornography'...

That kind of wording has been polluted, as opposed to Jings, which I've literally heard for the first time.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#294

Post by jeza »

troels wrote: post #194
jeza wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though in some countries, hitting a pedestrian gets the driver an automatic jail term. Collisions with pedestrians don't happen all that often in such countries.

I'd still rather be the driver in that scenario (Which I believe was the parent's point)

I think I'd rather be neither.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#295

Post by MarkMc »

yaeger wrote: post #91
mikepalmer wrote: post #79

Recently drove a Tesla Model S P85D... best thing about it is that the torque is immediate and silent. Not only can you blow other cars away at lights, you can do it casually, with no noise or fuss. Car is here; put car over there. It's like piloting a UFO.

Don't you see any problem with the silence in terms of safety? There is a reason bicycles need to have a bell. Because these you also cannot hear when they approach you. Although, it would be funny seeing a Tesla with a nice little bell and the tacked on law that you have to use it to alarm others in front of you that you are approaching. That'll be a sight to behold.

I'm sure it won't be long until Google's self-driving car automatically sounds the horn when it detects an imminent collision with a pedestrian or car.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#296

Post by lobsterman »

santacluster wrote: post #222
masklinn wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They contribute to being heard by walkers and cyclist relying on their ears to know whether a car is coming, which is the legal point of adding these things (and why they can be disabled at high speed)

As someone who lives in a place where cycling traffic (i.e., completely silent traffic) is massive (Amsterdam), I would suggest this is just a matter of careless habit in a car dominated society. The only people not looking, relying in their ears and therefor constantly causing dangerous traffic situations over here are tourists. Those are the only ones blindly stepping into traffic because they don't hear the bicycl…

I agree. It's just a matter of getting used to checking for cars visually. You already have to do that with bikes when crossing bike lanes.

During a transition period I can see it being a problem since listening for cars it can be a strong habit. I had problems with cross walks in the US at first since many of them don't emit a sound when it's green. I would often stand around subconsciously waiting for the sound to indicate that I can cross, and I'd miss my turn.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#297

Post by kagamine »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #233
Animats wrote: post #72

This may be a transient problem as people get used to new technology. It's like using Filmlook to put scratches and grain on HD video. The 2013 Lotus Evora, a series hybrid vehicle with an electric motor and a fixed gearbox, took this to the point of silliness. Not only did they provide fake engine sounds, they provided shift paddles and required the driver to shift software-simulated gears . They even provided a mom…

I still want one that makes the sounds of the vehicles in The Jetsons. Why aren't loadable and customizable sounds a thing?

While browsers can't decide on a format for the Internet I can't imagine what kind a mess the auto industry could come up for custom sounds for cars. But the arguments would be funny to listen to, 2 guys in a pub, the first boasting about how his Mustang is lossless, the other disregarding due to background noise and file size.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#298

Post by kagamine »

marssaxman wrote: post #283
kaybe wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dangerous if pedestrians and cyclists expect to hear cars and they approach silently.

A car would have to be some sort of magical hovercraft to approach silently, because tires rolling on asphalt make lots of noise whether the engine contributes or not.

I was almost run over by a Nissan Leaf 2 weeks ago because it crept up behind me on soft snow. It was only going about 5-10 km/h. They could definitely manage to kill a child.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#299

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jarek wrote: post #282
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not following. How do radio signals help a kid stepping off a curb? Not everybody owns a phone; not everybody has it on and running the 'don't get run over' app. We've been trained as a people to respond to environmental cues. The learning period to adjust to different cues (beeps, phone apps etc) is another phrase for 'lots of people get hit by silent cars'. I'd suggest a period of dual cues - make noise, AND whatev…

Radio signals to help blind people, replacing sound. The learning period for "vehicles don't make noise at speeds that can kill you" has already begun. Priuses have been around for 10 years.

Until a sizeable fraction of the cars on the road are silent, the learning period has not yet significantly begun.

Re: The rise of fake engine noise

#300

Post by LLWM »

gambiting wrote: post #262
LLWM wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real thing is also a recording, it's the memory of the music and the playing skill recorded in the violinist's mind, with the musician and his violin as the playback device rather than a speaker. You prefer the acoustic qualities of one type of playback device over the other, but that doesn't make it any more or less "real" for any commonly accepted definition of "real".

...I honestly can't tell if you are serious. Your argument is basically that everything is real, because sound coming from the speakers is no less real than the sound coming from an actual violin. Should I have used a term "artificial" then? Just like artificial diamonds are not the same as real diamonds, artificial sounds produced by a speaker are not the same as sounds made by a real violin. Like someone else said…

Hey, preferring some playback devices because of your cultural background is just as valid as preferring some of them because they have higher pitches. You like what you like. But they're all "real".

Artificial doesn't make sense here because music is manmade to begin with. I don't think it would make sense to call an artisanal handmade telephone any less artificial than your factory-stamped Cisco IP phone. Diamonds are naturally occuring, so there is actually a distinction there. As the manufacturing process matures, that distinction will remain, but 99% of people just won't care. Like with salt.

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