The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan • Hacker News Board

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#171

Post by probably_wrong » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #165

probably_wrong wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are just trolling, or maybe you actually believe in what you say. I know I used to believe the "it's above games journalism" point of view, as I found it had plenty of merit. In case it's the second one, I have to tell you something: it really isn't about truth in games journalism. I know a lot of people think it is, but it truly isn't. Gamergate's sword are its misogynistic views and its coordinated attack…

Would you care to elaborate on this further? The number of people who disagree with GamerGate, who are willing to deeply go into their reasons why, is very very tiny in my experience. Usually all you get is "gamergate is about harassing women", a link to an instance where trolls have done precisely that, and nothing further. Absolutely nothing to directly rebut the constant refrain that most people in the movement ar…

Sure thing.

I agree with the stated purposes of GG: games journalism needs some serious balancing. For instance, that mailing list in which both journalists and producers are members is an example of a line that should exist and yet doesn't. Hech, even "game developer literally in bed with producers" is something that, properly approached (not the case AT ALL, of course), could have been a valid point.

And yet, what is GG known for? They are being openly misogynistic, attacking anyone who dares speaking against them in a pretty serious way. Anita Sarkeesian and Felicia Day, to name two famous women, were doxxed and harrassed just for speaking openly.

And just like you cannot say "X and Y belong to Anonymous, but Z doesn't", you cannot say "The misogynists are using GG as an excuse, but they are not true GGers", because they are GG (the same way that you are not stuck in traffic, you are traffic).

So my point would be: If a group is full of jerks that are flocking towards a group erroneously, are they really in the wrong group?

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#172

Post by chez17 » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

ownagefool wrote: post #168

mahranch wrote: post #54

The problem I see with his retiring is one I've experienced on reddit as a moderator. When someone higher than you "retires" or goes otherwise inactive, yet still retains the power they hold, they inevitably come back. It's guaranteed. Even if it's only for a day. That doesn't sound like a problem at first, but it's a HUGE problem. Why? Because new policies, rules or ways of handling things get enacted or evolve and…

It goes the other way too; many communities are now dead because heavy handed moderators who were seldomly the folks who grew said communities. Often, after the death of the original place, the same people can be found stomping on original though in the next popular place, because such people seek their power. If there are people trying to clean up 4chan, they're probably simultaneously damaging it, because let's be…

>the lax rules, for better or worse, is what it really has going for it.

Better. 4chan was the most culturally influential website out there. I don't know how much that's true today but it shaped the humor and language of the internet in a way nothing else did. It's good to have places where there are no rules, no sacred cows, no need to be polite and politically correct. In a sea of bland derivatives, it at least had a personality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this site and others are not like that, but it's good to have that somewhere. There is no denying how influential that site was over the last 10 years. The stuff we joke about today was born in the depths of 4chan a long time ago.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#173

Post by devindotcom » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #165

probably_wrong wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are just trolling, or maybe you actually believe in what you say. I know I used to believe the "it's above games journalism" point of view, as I found it had plenty of merit. In case it's the second one, I have to tell you something: it really isn't about truth in games journalism. I know a lot of people think it is, but it truly isn't. Gamergate's sword are its misogynistic views and its coordinated attack…

Would you care to elaborate on this further? The number of people who disagree with GamerGate, who are willing to deeply go into their reasons why, is very very tiny in my experience. Usually all you get is "gamergate is about harassing women", a link to an instance where trolls have done precisely that, and nothing further. Absolutely nothing to directly rebut the constant refrain that most people in the movement ar…

People have elaborated on it for months. It's so thoroughly discredited in every way that if you don't see it now, you're not going to. Consider it "unfairly maligned" if you want - no one cares any more.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#174

Post by tootie » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:02 PM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #54

The problem I see with his retiring is one I've experienced on reddit as a moderator. When someone higher than you "retires" or goes otherwise inactive, yet still retains the power they hold, they inevitably come back. It's guaranteed. Even if it's only for a day. That doesn't sound like a problem at first, but it's a HUGE problem. Why? Because new policies, rules or ways of handling things get enacted or evolve and…

This was actually the plot of Ran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ran_%28film%29). The lord retires and divides his territory amongst his sons, but retains his title. His sons resent that he carries himself as lord even after they have inherited the land and conflict ensues. It's an absolutely enthralling and gorgeous film.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#175

Post by speeder » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:05 PM UTC

chez17 wrote: post #172

ownagefool wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes the other way too; many communities are now dead because heavy handed moderators who were seldomly the folks who grew said communities. Often, after the death of the original place, the same people can be found stomping on original though in the next popular place, because such people seek their power. If there are people trying to clean up 4chan, they're probably simultaneously damaging it, because let's be…

>the lax rules, for better or worse, is what it really has going for it. Better. 4chan was the most culturally influential website out there. I don't know how much that's true today but it shaped the humor and language of the internet in a way nothing else did. It's good to have places where there are no rules, no sacred cows, no need to be polite and politically correct. In a sea of bland derivatives, it at least ha…

One thing I noticed that is really interesting, is that MANY 4chan memes that leaked into internet at wide, started at 2chan...

4channers that also frequent 2chan frequently end posting 2chan memes in 4chan, 4chan then modifies them as needed (ie: "westernizes" them), and then those memes might one day become widespread on the english internet.

This has the interesting side effect of syncing many memes between the english and japanese internet, while some other countries are very isolated in general (Brazillian memes for example are usually only Brazillian)

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#176

Post by ijk » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:05 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #165

probably_wrong wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are just trolling, or maybe you actually believe in what you say. I know I used to believe the "it's above games journalism" point of view, as I found it had plenty of merit. In case it's the second one, I have to tell you something: it really isn't about truth in games journalism. I know a lot of people think it is, but it truly isn't. Gamergate's sword are its misogynistic views and its coordinated attack…

Would you care to elaborate on this further? The number of people who disagree with GamerGate, who are willing to deeply go into their reasons why, is very very tiny in my experience. Usually all you get is "gamergate is about harassing women", a link to an instance where trolls have done precisely that, and nothing further. Absolutely nothing to directly rebut the constant refrain that most people in the movement ar…

No, they're primarily picking fights with individuals and systematically distracting everyone from the actual corruption of monied interests. Every so-called ethics issue that GamerGate has highlighted has been a hugely overblown misinterpretation, while several major ethical issues, such as the attempt to tightly control what YouTubers could and could not say about Shadows of Mordor, were ignored by GamerGate.

Major industry organizations have been forced to step up their efforts to protect innocent developers from GamerGate.

I oppose GameGate because:

* Every issue they've brought up has, without exception, been a minor quibble at best and an outright fabrication on the part of GamerGate at worst

* GamerGate has, as a movement, systematically refused to decry the harassment or take any kind of practical steps to curb it

* GamerGate uses charities as cover for their actions, and then DDOS the charities when the charities refuse to be used like that.

* GamerGate is still, as a movement, entirely obsessed with three specific women

* GamerGate uses anonymity for plausible deniability of its celebration of things like developer's dogs dying (multiple instances), SWATing (multiple instances), bomb threats (multiple instances).

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#177

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:06 PM UTC

earless1 wrote: post #42

Sealy wrote: post #32

"I founded 4chan eleven and a half years ago at the age of 15, and after more than a decade of service, I've decided it's time for me to move on." That makes him 25 now.... and just to think, he's in a position to move on from founding, creating and running one of the web's most successful messaging boards. Dang....

11.5 + 15 != 25

[deleted]

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#178

Post by pervycreeper » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #152

theorique wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hasn't happened though. It's rare enough that people use it as a hypothetical example of "oh my god, what if?"

Hasn't happened? http://gawker.com/8channers-sent-cops-to-wrong-house-in-atte... http://feministing.com/2015/01/16/things-have-happened-in-th...

Those articles are just repeating the accusation without evidence. Also, I'm not sure why anyone would give any credence to information from those sources in the first place.

I am astounded by the viciousness and mendacity of those who are determined to undermine 8chan at any cost. These people are essentially fighting for total corporate control of every corner of the internet, just because 8chan doesn't promote their pet issue.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#179

Post by pervycreeper » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:14 PM UTC

headwayoldest wrote: post #143

ANTSANTS wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not directly relevant to the topic, but if you really believe this you should better educate yourself with regard to what has been done in the name of gamergate. No, really, gamergate supporters like Milo Yiannopoulos have also been doxxed, sent death threats to, sent threatening packages to, had their family members harassed, etc. The social justice movement contains honest supporters of diversity in tech, and…

>No, really, gamergate supporters like Milo Yiannopoulos have also been doxxed I don't think someone searching his twitter feed for a phone number he himself posted for self promotion falls under the same category as taking selfies outside someone's place of work. >The drunk driving analogy is stupid because the benefits that cars provide to society outweigh the negatives of drunk drivers, but there is no good reason…

>I don't think someone searching his twitter feed for a phone number he himself posted for self promotion

The parent commenter was referring to an incident when Shanley Kane tweeted Yiannopoulos' personal phone number, which was not intended to be public. He subsequently received a deluge of messages (does this qualify as "harassment"?) Such behavior is commonplace amongst the SJW set, and not so much among their opponents, contrary to the mainstream perception.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#180

Post by mafribe » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #171

Karunamon wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate on this further? The number of people who disagree with GamerGate, who are willing to deeply go into their reasons why, is very very tiny in my experience. Usually all you get is "gamergate is about harassing women", a link to an instance where trolls have done precisely that, and nothing further. Absolutely nothing to directly rebut the constant refrain that most people in the movement ar…

Sure thing. I agree with the stated purposes of GG: games journalism needs some serious balancing. For instance, that mailing list in which both journalists and producers are members is an example of a line that should exist and yet doesn't. Hech, even "game developer literally in bed with producers" is something that, properly approached (not the case AT ALL, of course), could have been a valid point. And yet, what…

Who were Anita Sarkeesian and Felicia Day doxxed by? Maybe they did it themselves, or their friends did it. Have you got any evidence at all that this is not what happened. After all damseling-in-distress is very lucrative these days.

Edit: Downvoters, where is your evidence, where is your evidence, where is your evidence, where is your evidence?