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Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

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Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#41
post #34
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more interesting if they had that option just too see how often players would resort to something like that.

All of them. It is a common accepted reality in game design that players will take any shortcut offered. Players will go so far as skipping content just to "solve" a challenge with the fastest method. Players would jump at genocide if it solved their problem. It would be an interesting result if it was not so predictable.

Unless the outcome is not clear. Killing off all homeless people would get rid of homelessness(obviously) but it might have a long term negatives, so not everyone will elect to do it.

Just like in many RPG games you can make "evil" and "good" choices. In many instances, going with "evil" makes the game much easier - instead of doing a 2 hour long quest to find someone's lost ring, you can just kill the person and take their money you would get as a reward, so the immediate outcome is the same. But people like to roleplay and people don't make decisions just because they make the game easier.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#42
post #39
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'final solution' option? It's been done in real life of course many times in many countries, but I don't think adding an option to Sim City to round them all up and shoot/gas/incinerate them, or build a 'killing fields' facility is really what people are looking for in that game. In DF we can get some distance from it because it's explicitly a fantasy world, but Sim City is a bit too close to emulating real life…

[deleted]

Because many, many people, myself included, would be horribly offended if you could build gas chambers and ovens, round up all the poor, and kill them. There is also, along with the "video games don't cause violence" literature some literature on morality in video games. In fact, there are entire games that are built around forcing the player to make difficult emotional decisions. So it is perfectly understandable that people might not want to play a game where the best / only / easiest way to win is to commit genocide. My point is that the game I think you are describing probably wouldn't sell very well. GTA does well because horrific violence is what the franchise is known for, it is what people expect when they buy the game (GTA also doesn't feature a way to literally commit genocide either, AFAIK).

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#43

It is amusing what happens when you make games that are "realistic" in a way which isn't fun for players but is like real life, and get to see how the player base reacts. Depression Quest springs to mind. Or way the book the protagonist of The Fault In Our Stars loves cuts off abruptly once the main character dies, which upsets her to no end.

In the original Civilization, if your political system was Democracy, there was no Corruption :))

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#44
post #20

It's an amusing thought, but I imagine that most of these people realise homelessness isn't really a problem you can simply fix by following some set of procedures. Ultimately it's a game to be played for entertainment, and if you can get some people to think about social issues as they play it that's wonderful, but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. Clearly homeless people in the game are impeding some peoples enj…

The 'final solution' option? It's been done in real life of course many times in many countries, but I don't think adding an option to Sim City to round them all up and shoot/gas/incinerate them, or build a 'killing fields' facility is really what people are looking for in that game. In DF we can get some distance from it because it's explicitly a fantasy world, but Sim City is a bit too close to emulating real life…

Is Sim City really closer to real life than GTA? I am no more the near-omnipotent mayor of a new town than I am a crook for hire with a penchant for running over ISKCon members.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#45
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except current France doesn't operate according to socialist logic. It's much closer to neo-liberalism too (as most of today's world). Just because the current president has the label "socialist" for historical reasons it doesn't make it socialism.

"Socialist!" is one of those meaningless code words, like "neoliberal!" that just means "bad!" for the intended audience.

neo-libreral means pro free trade

neo-conservate means pro war especially against non-democratic regimes they don't like seeking to remake them into democracies.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#46
post #30

>How to get rid of homeless reproduces dozens of threads concerning "homelessness" that appeared in Electronic Arts' online forum between 2012 and 2013. This is the $ 150 book?! with 438 pages? This is easy money!

I wonder how they cleared all those copyrighted posts.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#47

It's an amusing thought, but I imagine that most of these people realise homelessness isn't really a problem you can simply fix by following some set of procedures. Ultimately it's a game to be played for entertainment, and if you can get some people to think about social issues as they play it that's wonderful, but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. Clearly homeless people in the game are impeding some peoples enj…

To paraphrase from around 19:10 of [0] - readings of games throughout the ages have flip flopped between two moralistic binaries; between a wholesome pastime for young children, and a depraved and immoral one suited for soldiers, gamblers, or angry youth.

In saying the game is "supposed to be" something one elides the nature of play: As players interact with the game's systems, they reify what the systems allow and encourage, not any particular targeted messages.

Simcity's presentation of homelessness is intentional. It could easily design this out and immediately disappear people who no longer have a home; it makes this exact kind of assumption in making Sims gender and race-blind. Neither does it present homelessness within a simplified framework where you just push a button to make it go away. It molds the issue into a front-and-center strategic consideration, one balanced against others.

Now, not every game can tackle every issue. What is presented in Simcity is a popularized conception of "problems a city planner must deal with." Different versions of Simcity have emphasized different parts of the city. Although more detail and more simulation can always be added, there's ultimately some pivotal focus it tends to revolve around, one which tells us the sensibilities of its maker(s). This is true even of Dwarf Fortress; the point of the simulation there is to deepen the storytelling and provide believable details about its fantasy world.

So, complaints about homelessness as it's experienced in Simcity are very much a part of the discourse - whether we say "it's not really like that" or "I have a better solution," the game is prompting a kind of criticism that doesn't appear within the typical news-reaction cycle.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDizDa_rXw#t=1150

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#48
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'final solution' option? It's been done in real life of course many times in many countries, but I don't think adding an option to Sim City to round them all up and shoot/gas/incinerate them, or build a 'killing fields' facility is really what people are looking for in that game. In DF we can get some distance from it because it's explicitly a fantasy world, but Sim City is a bit too close to emulating real life…

It would be more interesting if they had that option just too see how often players would resort to something like that.

People kill game characters all the time, even when it's not part of the game. See RollerCoasters being ploughed into waiting crowds for one example. Or not being able to kill the child characters in FallOut3 for another.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#49
post #30

>How to get rid of homeless reproduces dozens of threads concerning "homelessness" that appeared in Electronic Arts' online forum between 2012 and 2013. This is the $ 150 book?! with 438 pages? This is easy money!

Hardly.

Would you know how to go about convincing a large number of people to buy 438 pages worth of forum posts for $150? If so, how much time and effort do you think it would take? What do you think your hourly wage would work out to be once you combine that time with the time taken to collect and the data and actually make the book.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually at first you used the word "communism", which is why I downvoted you and flagged your comment. You are just using inaccurate emotive language to rage wildly against a line in the article that offended your zealous patriotic/conservative sensibilities. You loudly complain about pretty much any article that contains a hint of politics you dislike. It just fills the comments with useless noise (I know I'm addin…

I actually flag all politics here, even the articles that agree with my political views, which are not at all what you seem to think they are, either. It helps to get rid of these articles and keep the site a good one for startups/hacking/interesting articles, so for me it's worthwhile. The article doesn't hurt my feelings: I think it's genuinely silly and low-quality.

An important part of flagging - and it is mentioned in the guidelines - is to avoid commenting that you've flagged the article.

Look at the low quality sub-thread that your comment spawned.

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