Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#11

Post by popeshoe » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 10:59 AM UTC

It's an amusing thought, but I imagine that most of these people realise homelessness isn't really a problem you can simply fix by following some set of procedures. Ultimately it's a game to be played for entertainment, and if you can get some people to think about social issues as they play it that's wonderful, but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. Clearly homeless people in the game are impeding some peoples enjoyment and it's a problem that is not obvious to solve.

Some games that offer more freedom let you solve problems like these in more interesting ways, for example when I played Dwarf Fortress (years ago now), a common strategy was to make the nobledwarfs accommodation floodable with lava, so if they got too uppity with their demands (sometimes nobles would insist that you make certain items or not sell a certain items or they'd get furious and make everybody else unhappy) they could be dispatched. I think it'd be funny if Sim City offered a similar option.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#12

Post by davidw » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:01 AM UTC

Malarkey73 wrote: post #8

davidw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's rewrite it. Say it's some conservative commentator like Bill O'Reilly: "To me video games are the so-called 'real France,'" he said. "The real France operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is socialism" That doesn't strike you as overtly and primarily political in nature? Beyond that, it's simply inane.

I don't think it is inane at all. Lots of games since Monopoly, Elite and running through Civilisation and SimCity have model economics, free trade, and free thinking ideas in-built into the game mechanics. And a lot of economics and free trade ideas seem to be justified by game theory and the naturalistic fallacy. And a lot of chasing GDP or national wealth or Educational policy sometimes seem to be maximising some…

It's a totally made-up analogy with no supporting facts. What does it even mean that "the real America operates according to a video game logic"? Does France operate that way? How about Morocco or Mongolia? It's nonsense.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#13

Post by davidw » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:04 AM UTC

palmer_eldritch wrote: post #10

davidw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's rewrite it. Say it's some conservative commentator like Bill O'Reilly: "To me video games are the so-called 'real France,'" he said. "The real France operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is socialism" That doesn't strike you as overtly and primarily political in nature? Beyond that, it's simply inane.

Except current France doesn't operate according to socialist logic. It's much closer to neo-liberalism too (as most of today's world). Just because the current president has the label "socialist" for historical reasons it doesn't make it socialism.

"Socialist!" is one of those meaningless code words, like "neoliberal!" that just means "bad!" for the intended audience.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#14

Post by V-2 » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:09 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #2

> "To me video games are the so-called 'real America,'" he said. "The real America operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is neo-liberalism Homelessness is a real problem, but, uh... yeah. I'm going to flag this as essentially a political article (most everything vice.com publishes is). Maybe for his next book he can chronicle how Quake is the real America too, with the mutant monsters represen…

Well, I haven't played SimCity (or any games, for that matter) for a while now, but if I recall, this type of games was always more akin to central planning model than laissez-faire; or else they wouldn't be that playable.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#15

Post by brazzy » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #6

chicofarm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does that make it political?

Let's rewrite it. Say it's some conservative commentator like Bill O'Reilly: "To me video games are the so-called 'real France,'" he said. "The real France operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is socialism" That doesn't strike you as overtly and primarily political in nature? Beyond that, it's simply inane.

Um, yes. It is indeed overtly and primarily political once you have rewritten it to be.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#16

Post by V-2 » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #9

davidw wrote: post #2

> "To me video games are the so-called 'real America,'" he said. "The real America operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is neo-liberalism Homelessness is a real problem, but, uh... yeah. I'm going to flag this as essentially a political article (most everything vice.com publishes is). Maybe for his next book he can chronicle how Quake is the real America too, with the mutant monsters represen…

1. It's not a political article. It's an article which includes some content from someone possibly making a political point. 2. Even if it is political, that's not a problem. It's about an interesting intersection between video game technology and politics, and with some focus on an area with a heavy tech presence (the bay). That's relevant.

"Including some content" and making a political point based on it pretty much fullfils the definition of "political" to me ;) Even candidate speeches do exactly that. They're hardly ever "purely political". While I don't downvote nor dismiss the article, you seem to be hairsplitting to me (as for point 1).

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#17

Post by davidw » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:15 AM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #15

davidw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's rewrite it. Say it's some conservative commentator like Bill O'Reilly: "To me video games are the so-called 'real France,'" he said. "The real France operates according to a video game logic, and that game logic is socialism" That doesn't strike you as overtly and primarily political in nature? Beyond that, it's simply inane.

Um, yes. It is indeed overtly and primarily political once you have rewritten it to be.

> Um, yes. It is indeed overtly and primarily political once you have rewritten it to be.

I changed two words - I replaced America with France and "neo-liberalism" with "socialism".

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#18

Post by hueving » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:16 AM UTC

popeshoe wrote: post #11

It's an amusing thought, but I imagine that most of these people realise homelessness isn't really a problem you can simply fix by following some set of procedures. Ultimately it's a game to be played for entertainment, and if you can get some people to think about social issues as they play it that's wonderful, but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. Clearly homeless people in the game are impeding some peoples enj…

Homelessness punishable by death should clear it up.

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#19

Post by popeshoe » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:22 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #12

Malarkey73 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is inane at all. Lots of games since Monopoly, Elite and running through Civilisation and SimCity have model economics, free trade, and free thinking ideas in-built into the game mechanics. And a lot of economics and free trade ideas seem to be justified by game theory and the naturalistic fallacy. And a lot of chasing GDP or national wealth or Educational policy sometimes seem to be maximising some…

It's a totally made-up analogy with no supporting facts. What does it even mean that "the real America operates according to a video game logic"? Does France operate that way? How about Morocco or Mongolia? It's nonsense.

In America if you collect 100 coins you get an extra life.

In America if you get seriously hurt you get taken to hospital and lose some money

In America you can only carry 2 guns

In America if you try and run forward and sideways at once the two velocities are combined and you run twice as fast

I guess some of them work

Re: Is 'SimCity' Homelessness a Bug or a Feature?

#20

Post by simonh » Wed, Jan 21, 2015, 11:24 AM UTC

popeshoe wrote: post #11

It's an amusing thought, but I imagine that most of these people realise homelessness isn't really a problem you can simply fix by following some set of procedures. Ultimately it's a game to be played for entertainment, and if you can get some people to think about social issues as they play it that's wonderful, but it's still supposed to be enjoyable. Clearly homeless people in the game are impeding some peoples enj…

The 'final solution' option? It's been done in real life of course many times in many countries, but I don't think adding an option to Sim City to round them all up and shoot/gas/incinerate them, or build a 'killing fields' facility is really what people are looking for in that game. In DF we can get some distance from it because it's explicitly a fantasy world, but Sim City is a bit too close to emulating real life for something like that to be a reasonable option.