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Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

jacquesmattheij.com

61–70 of 234 posts

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#61
As an intermediate developer I've managed to quadruple my wage after going from full-time (40 hours) to contracting rates (30+ hours, 6-month term). I brought up the fact that my side projects are starting to gain traction, but I know the work I'm doing for the company is important and I'd like to finish what I started.

I also brought up that I've had a few job offers with highly reputable firms, and my current career growth had stagnated where I was currently positioned.

Basically; me me me.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#62
post #53

> Typically, in a mature company the salaries of the dev team are a rounding error on the total operation. I don't think that's true at all. From small startups to large successful no-longer-startups, often dev salaries dominate spending, from what I usually hear. Perhaps my experience is limited? Or perhaps the author means something specific by "mature company"?

The company I work for now, is around 18-20 employees (high/low for the past year), and the 5 people working in IT account for more than half of payroll... so I'd say you are probably correct.

IT personnel typically pays well over $50k/year for an established (not tech support) role. And over $90K for a senior developer role (usually more). This is usually twice what an employee in other roles will make.

Rock star sales people in a sales driven company can make quite a bit more, but this tends to be commission based... there is a risk there, and the reward is higher pay. If you have a good idea, and want to take a risk, then you can reap larger rewards from that, though you have as much or more chance of falling on your face. I've now done that twice, and am happy to make a nice salary as a senior developer or software architect than deal with the risk/reward scenarios.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#63
post #25

I'm about to ask for a raise for the first time but I'm not entirely sure how to handle it. I've been with this company for 7 years and only received 2-3% increases the past 3 years. I interviewed at a competitor and they offered me a 20% increase, which I turned down. During negotiations should I simply ask for them to match? I don't want them to think I'm actively looking for a new job but want to get paid my worth…

I am unable to negotiate a raise (because I don't even try). I always got (10%-15%) more (in the next job) when I wanted to leave and looked for something else. Usually still having a job that I want to leave but not having to find something immediately allows me to to negotiate a higher salary. OTOH I never left a job just to get more money.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#64

A tech employer in Vancouver once told me that if an engineer tries to negotiate for a higher salary that is a signal that they care only about money and that they wouldn't be good hire, regardless of their experience and skillset. This is one of the "big" tech companies in Vancouver, BC. Never mind the hundreds of small sweatshops here.

I once had a interviewer ask me "How much would it take for you to work for us"? I told him that I didn't understand the question and so he said "How much do you need to live on?" I asked him how much does it take for him to live on? He walked out and so did I.

I don't understand your objection to his original phrasing - he asked you what your salary requirement is?

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#66
Does just receiving an annual performance bonus make your negotiating position stronger or weaker?

How long would you wait after the bonus to ask for a raise?

What if you don't want to stay at your company much longer? Should you still ask for a raise, and would you feel unethical for leaving soon after getting a raise?

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#67

I found this video useful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km2Hd_xgo9Q

I just finished watching it, Very interesting! I tried to find more information about the video, here's what I found:

An article from Harvard Business Review from the speaker[1], He summarizes the main points:

1) Don’t underestimate the importance of likability.

2) Help them understand why you deserve what you’re requesting.

3) Make it clear they can get you.

4) Understand the person across the table.

5) Understand their constraints.

6) Be prepared for tough questions.

7) Focus on the questioner’s intent, not on the question.

8) Consider the whole deal.

9) Negotiate multiple issues simultaneously, not serially.

10) Don’t negotiate just to negotiate.

11) Think through the timing of offers.

12) Avoid, ignore, or downplay ultimatums of any kind.

13) Remember, they’re not out to get you.

14) Stay at the table.

15) Maintain a sense of perspective.

Here is a quick summary from "BatMasterson" on that forum [2], they are useful for those who watch the video

Dr. Malhotra makes some good points.

I've summarized quotes from his lecture (not the entire 15 points) here:

1. Think about who you are and what you want do to in your life. Pick the right choice

2. What is not negotiable today may be negotiable tomorrow.

3. Stay engaged.

4. The Mike Tyson allusion: "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"

5. Get the why they're asking what they are asking.

6. If they make an ultimatum, generally speaking, (you can) ignore it.

7. There is no right answer to every situation -The Star Trek Captain trial allusion where the answer is Yes...provided that, considering this...

8. These people like you but you are not their only concern.

9. Negotiating w/ your future boss is not the same as negotiating with HR "adapt-to-each".

10. Don't be in a mad rush to get offers

11. Tell the truth. Resist the temptation to tell even a small lie.

[1] https://hbr.org/2014/04/15-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer

[2] http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-to-negotiate-your-jo...

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#68
If you want to know what companies offer as base salaries check this website I made that uses H1B wage data. The tech companies have a very wide range for negotiation at each level and it's important to know that when you go into salary negotiations. Although this is H1B data, for top companies these are the same base salaries that US residents are also making, and they are pretty damn high....Look at google for example: http://salarytalk.org/search#%7B%22qcompanyName%22%3A%22goog...

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#69
First, know things and people are worth what others will pay for them

As a floor, you need to fund a modest life, and that means retirement, healthcare, personal improvemwnt, food, home, etc...

Add some small margin onto that for quality of life.

Second, get business minded. It helps to take an interest in the company, know it's financials, and it's goals. This helps you position your value in direct, meaningful terms.

I very strongly agree with being ready to walk when it comes time for salary discussions. If you can't walk, you will get the lowest comp, unless you have some relationship or other leverage to play on.

The bigger the increase, the more this matters.

The idea that you are as valuable as a replacement and training is false. This ignores you as a person, relationships you have, etc... this is often the framing, but do not be afraid to expand the discussion.

Set goals and justify them. This is something sales people do all the time. They are motivated by those goals and communicate them easily and consistently.

Ie: I need 200k this year to fund my travel and home investment plans.

A tech person may have identical goals, or maybe is wanting to build something, or send a kid to school.

Value these and frame your motivation to work in terms of your goals, company, love of the work, etc... Managers, and higher level people in the company understand and respect goal oriented people. Make sure your goals and the company align, or make basic sense and there are no conflicts.

This all speaks to the work being worth it and it also speaks to reasonable expectations as opposed to just greed. Greed isn't bad. Clear, meaningful goals are easier to sell and for others to identify with. When others identify with your life purposes, they can value them and very easily see how you are inclined to stay and work for them. They also nicely dodge the "how much is enough?" Type questions.

Get your other offers and or secure relationships needed to know you can land on your feet should you need to make a change.

Be flexible. The company isn't seeing it's goals play out all at once, and you won't either, but there should be a path to get there that is realistic.

All of this boils down to a "this is where I need to be and why it matters" conversation.

Shared and aligned goals is a great basis for a loyalty type arrangement. People will work hard for others who take care of them and seeing that play out is worth a lot.

Another advantage of goals is there sometimes is more than one way to get there besides cash. Nice to have options on the table.

If it goes well, great. If not, you have your fall back.

You may be able to contract too. Where a company really cannot pay you what you need to realize your goals, perhaps a more flexible arrangement can leave you empowered to do it your self.

This does not need to be a conflict of interest, particularly where you may have more skills not being used, or relationships where you can add value in atomic, easy to execute ways.

Another consideration is involvement with sales and marketing. If you can take some risk, you may find opportunities to capture nice rewards by being part of that process. This takes some people skills, but getting them is worth it.

Ask sales how valuable a tech person who can handle and understand the sales process is. They could be your most potent value advocates.

You help them close a big one, and it directly benefits them. You leaving will present an opportunity cost they will have zero problem justifying.

Of course there are spiffs and such potentially mixed up in this and it all depends on who you are. Taking some risk will differentiate you from other techs and that can be worth a lot.

The first time you walk it is hard. The first time you cultivate advocates is hard. The first time you take risk is hard, and the first time you get a nice increase is hard.

All worth it. Actually it all is as worth it as you think it is. And people count on those things being hard enough and not worth it enough to keep you inexpensive.

What is worth what? That is your primary question to answer. Sort your life goals out, value them, decide on risk and alternatives, and then proceed to have the dialog needed to get you there.

Once you start down this path, you do not stop. It becomes part of you and others will see that mindset and treat you accordingly.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#70
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a interviewer ask me "How much would it take for you to work for us"? I told him that I didn't understand the question and so he said "How much do you need to live on?" I asked him how much does it take for him to live on? He walked out and so did I.

I don't understand your objection to his original phrasing - he asked you what your salary requirement is?

Its almost never in your (an employee/interviewee) best interest to disclose that. You are essentially saying "here is the minimum I will work for" (and that's usually what you'll get) - let them try to figure that out!
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