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Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

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Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#11

Post by eco »

Someone wrote: post #6
putzdown wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how the support for C++11 is looking in this version? It would be pretty great if Microsoft could finally close [the gap]( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/06/11/c-11-14-fe... ) on C++11 support a mere four years after GCC and Clang completed their support for the standard. That would also give some hope that Visual Studio might have full support for C++14 in a year or two (which GCC and C…

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/11/17/c-11-14-17... (via http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/11/12/visual-stu... )

Good to see the two things I've tried to use and wouldn't work in VC++ 2013 (generic lambdas and noexcept) have been implemented.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#12

Post by pjmlp »

TillE wrote: post #10
pjmlp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is doing a mix of C++11 and C++14 support. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Connect-event-... Still, outside the open source world, from all vendors selling compilers, Microsoft is the most up to date. Before anyone mentions ICC, no not even version 15 is fully compliant. https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/c0x-features-suppo... IBM just realeased XLC with partial C++11 support. Others ar…

And odd bits of proposed C++17. Picking the low-hanging fruit, I imagine, based on their discussion of the difficulty in supporting other features. I'm waiting impatiently for expression SFINAE. I like the features of C++ that let you write dynamic-esque code that's evaluated at compile time. It enables little bits of cleverness that save you from large complicated solutions. > outside the open source world Which is…

> Which is quite large, considering that Clang and GCC are the standard compilers for just about every major non-Microsoft platform, including the mobile ones.

I have worked with a few enterprise customers (Fortune 500) that only allowed the compilers from the respective OS vendors. And new versions required an approval process to be followed.

There is more out there than just GNU/Linux, Mac OS X, *BSD and Android.

Granted, this was around 10 years ago, but I doubt the situation changed at all in such environments.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#13

Post by plorkyeran »

TillE wrote: post #10
pjmlp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is doing a mix of C++11 and C++14 support. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Connect-event-... Still, outside the open source world, from all vendors selling compilers, Microsoft is the most up to date. Before anyone mentions ICC, no not even version 15 is fully compliant. https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/c0x-features-suppo... IBM just realeased XLC with partial C++11 support. Others ar…

And odd bits of proposed C++17. Picking the low-hanging fruit, I imagine, based on their discussion of the difficulty in supporting other features. I'm waiting impatiently for expression SFINAE. I like the features of C++ that let you write dynamic-esque code that's evaluated at compile time. It enables little bits of cleverness that save you from large complicated solutions. > outside the open source world Which is…

The C++17 bits are things proposed by people on the VC++ team, since verifying that something is actually implementable is an important part of writing a good proposal.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#14

Post by Encosia »

jarjoura wrote: post #2

I remember reading that Microsoft was moving the WPF framework into maintenance mode as they focus on the WinRT variant of UI development. Interesting that from the release notes, WPF appears to be getting feature development again. Hard to know without Windows 10 consumer announcements if Microsoft internally is back-tracking on the idea of fullscreen desktop apps.

Visual Studio itself is a WPF app, for what it's worth. I can't imagine Visual Studio being rewritten as a "Modern" app any time soon. So, it makes sense that MS will continue to invest in WPF.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#15

Post by binarycrusader »

pjmlp wrote: post #8
putzdown wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how the support for C++11 is looking in this version? It would be pretty great if Microsoft could finally close [the gap]( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/06/11/c-11-14-fe... ) on C++11 support a mere four years after GCC and Clang completed their support for the standard. That would also give some hope that Visual Studio might have full support for C++14 in a year or two (which GCC and C…

Microsoft is doing a mix of C++11 and C++14 support. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Connect-event-... Still, outside the open source world, from all vendors selling compilers, Microsoft is the most up to date. Before anyone mentions ICC, no not even version 15 is fully compliant. https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/c0x-features-suppo... IBM just realeased XLC with partial C++11 support. Others ar…

I suppose I could see the "most up to date" argument, but Intel looks like it has the most complete commercial compiler at the moment for C++11.

But certainly, the next most complete support for C++11 in a commercial compiler might just be from Oracle Solaris Studio (which, despite the name, is available for Solaris and Linux both):

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37069_01/html/E37071/gncix.html#s...

It supports all C++11 features excluding: C++ 11 concurrency and atomic operations, and User-defined literals.

Notably, Oracle Solaris Studio is also one of the few compilers to include full C99 support.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#16

Post by taspeotis »

I was really surprised to read this:

    We have rebuilt the XAML language service on top of the .NET
    Compiler Platform ("Roslyn") to provide an improved XAML editing
    experience with rich IntelliSense that is faster and more reliable.
My understanding was that Roslyn was heavily geared towards languages that are largely procedural like C# and VB.NET. So functional languages, like F#, aren't suited to being parsed by Roslyn. But all of a sudden they're using Roslyn with a declarative language (XAML)?

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#17

Post by seanmcdirmid »

taspeotis wrote: post #16

I was really surprised to read this: We have rebuilt the XAML language service on top of the .NET Compiler Platform ("Roslyn") to provide an improved XAML editing experience with rich IntelliSense that is faster and more reliable. My understanding was that Roslyn was heavily geared towards languages that are largely procedural like C# and VB.NET. So functional languages, like F#, aren't suited to being parsed by Rosl…

XAML is a markup language, that counts as declarative, but you can think of it as a subtraction of C# (the ability to create instances and bind their properties), it doesn't add any advanced declarative programming features and definitely nothing fancy type-wise as in F#.

I don't know what they did, but it seems reasonable that it would share a type checker with C# but have a unique parser.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#18

Post by StephanTLavavej »

plorkyeran wrote: post #13
TillE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And odd bits of proposed C++17. Picking the low-hanging fruit, I imagine, based on their discussion of the difficulty in supporting other features. I'm waiting impatiently for expression SFINAE. I like the features of C++ that let you write dynamic-esque code that's evaluated at compile time. It enables little bits of cleverness that save you from large complicated solutions. > outside the open source world Which is…

The C++17 bits are things proposed by people on the VC++ team, since verifying that something is actually implementable is an important part of writing a good proposal.

By my count, none of VC 2015 RTM's C++17 features will have been proposed by MS. N3922 auto and N4086 trigraphs were proposed by Googlers. Same for another Core feature that might be checked in. In the Library, I just checked in void_t, invoke(), and trivially copyable reference_wrapper, none of which I proposed (or anyone else at MS). I did propose auto_ptr/etc.'s removal which was voted into C++17, but it's too late for me to remove that stuff from 2015 RTM.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#19

Post by codingthebeach »

putzdown wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how the support for C++11 is looking in this version? It would be pretty great if Microsoft could finally close [the gap]( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/06/11/c-11-14-fe... ) on C++11 support a mere four years after GCC and Clang completed their support for the standard. That would also give some hope that Visual Studio might have full support for C++14 in a year or two (which GCC and C…

It would be nice if you wouldn't derail the conversation with another tired old "but it's not as good as gcc when it comes to X". This is a CTP. You split hairs over minor points of standards compliance that many devs won't even use on gcc yet because the features are so new, and completely avoid mentioning that the productivity of Visual Studio (for both .NET as well as native C++, including cross-platform C++) arguably dwarfs any other IDE on the market. Have you used, I mean really used, a recent version of Visual Studio for C++ work? Or are you making this comment because you haven't and you find it threatening? Tell you what. You build your C++ app with Xcode 6 or command-line gcc for all it matters. I'll build mine with Visual Studio 2013 or later. We'll see who wins. By the way, I love gcc. Love, love, love. That doesn't mean I have to take pot shots at Visual Studio, which is tooled to the Nth, completely stable, and not at all the old restrictive MS dev environment of yore. The times have changed.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#20

Post by pjmlp »

binarycrusader wrote: post #15
pjmlp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is doing a mix of C++11 and C++14 support. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Connect-event-... Still, outside the open source world, from all vendors selling compilers, Microsoft is the most up to date. Before anyone mentions ICC, no not even version 15 is fully compliant. https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/c0x-features-suppo... IBM just realeased XLC with partial C++11 support. Others ar…

I suppose I could see the "most up to date" argument, but Intel looks like it has the most complete commercial compiler at the moment for C++11. But certainly, the next most complete support for C++11 in a commercial compiler might just be from Oracle Solaris Studio (which, despite the name, is available for Solaris and Linux both): http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37069_01/html/E37071/gncix.html#s... It supports all C++11…

> I suppose I could see the "most up to date" argument, but Intel looks like it has the most complete commercial compiler at the moment for C++11.

Except that some of the features are only available on UNIX based OS. So you cannot use them if you are after portable code.

If an ANSI C++ feature is currently OS specific on a multi-platform compiler, on my manual it isn't supported.

> But certainly, the next most complete support for C++11 in a commercial compiler might just be from Oracle Solaris Studio

Interesting. I wasn't aware of it.

The last time I spend coding on Solaris was around 2011.

> Notably, Oracle Solaris Studio is also one of the few compilers to include full C99 support.

Even as C++ fanboy, I do concede it is to be expected that a UNIX vendor does support the latest C standards.

After all, it is because of UNIX that we got C and I don't see it being re-written into something else.

There I would like that at least they support "Bounds-checking interfaces (Annex K)" from C11, which is optional.

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