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What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

paulgraham.com

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Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#171

Post by stegosaurus »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #166
stegosaurus wrote: post #75

What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? There are plenty of activities I can enjoy, and some, quite a few of them in fact, are profitable. Once you shoe-horn them into the power dynamic situation of a traditional job (with the bureaucracy that entails unless you're dealing with Actual People as opposed to corporations), suddenly a lot of the luster disappears. As a ridiculous example - I enjoy reading. I…

So treat the drones as Actual People. You'll be surprised. It... doesn't always work, but it's worth a shot. I think the perception that it's "submission" is a framing problem. (s)He has his problems, you have yours. You probably don't want his. I have at times gotten way too close to being the boss; I don't want it unless it's a very narrow situation. If it's actual submission, then I can't help you. I just don't la…

I understand what you're saying to an extent, but personally I have only ever once had a 'boss' that I could truly consider as having enough autonomy for this to even make sense.

Unfortunately this was for a casual job alongside my undergrad (i.e. not enough to pay the bills in the real world).

Otherwise - 'The Boss' is not an actual person. They're not my manager, they're not the HR department. 'The Boss' is a nebulous set of policy documents. Or as you say, there's a boss above a boss above a boss, and no-one that can actually be reasoned with or respected.

One day perhaps I'll be lucky enough to work for a small company without these issues cropping up, but that's been my take on things so far.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#172

Post by smaccoun »

Very refreshing to see this on HN. Often I feel bewildered and sometimes even somewhat infuriated when I read about people demanding a new work week of X days/hours. For me, as long as I'm programming - which is almost all the time at my job - it never feels like I'm working. I often have to set timers to cap myself for working on a programming problem for too long, else I'll never go to the bathroom! So work is something I love to do and a huge part of my life that I often don't want to cut out.

Further, working with others who are passionate about what they do produces one of the most wonderful pleasures in life, as it blends deep community/social bonds while plugging into life!

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#173

Post by stickhandle »

Lesson learned from having 3 kids in hockey: Until you reach a level of "good enough" to participate in "the game", its not much fun. Once there, the better you get, the more fun it becomes and turns into a virtuous circle of try_harder->get_better->more_fun->try_harder->get_better ...

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#174

Post by sjg007 »

chadgeidel wrote: post #34
abstractbill wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're supposed to come up with something that feels like work to other people .

I read "net news" - a lot. So much so that people comment on it. I always wondered if there was any value in "here's what is hot" in the tech world - like a personal link aggregator. Yeah, I could share/blog/tweet (and I do, but not much) but often the things that are interesting later aren't things I share right away. Still trying to solve that problem.

There could be in the future. Imagine you comment and construct your personal path through the Net that you share and others are allowed to search. Not just reddit/hn, but everything. And it is not just, I posted to hn or commented on hn, but your actual personal shared web history (with comments: yours and others)

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#175

Post by sjg007 »

duderific wrote: post #37

Funny he used the example of popping zits as something that most people don't enjoy. I rather enjoy popping a nice juicy zit on the occasion that I get one - it's quite cathartic. I wonder if I can make a career of it.

sure, go to med school and become a dermatologist.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#176

Post by cgag »

stegosaurus wrote: post #154
stegosaurus wrote: post #75

What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? There are plenty of activities I can enjoy, and some, quite a few of them in fact, are profitable. Once you shoe-horn them into the power dynamic situation of a traditional job (with the bureaucracy that entails unless you're dealing with Actual People as opposed to corporations), suddenly a lot of the luster disappears. As a ridiculous example - I enjoy reading. I…

As an addition to this, I've struggled a lot with the concept of working for pay and only recently could I really begin to explain why. Some people would probably call it 'entitlement', but I'm not really sure that's an accurate description. As an employee, your role is essentially a permanent state of brown nosing. First of all you must convince a rich person/company that you are worthy. Then you must convince them…

I feel this way so strongly. "Why do you want to work for us?" Because I have to sell my labor to pay my landlord for a place to sleep.

I'm passionate about a few things, but none of them include being told what to do, then having someone take a large cut out of the value I produce.

Edit: I'm currently researching alternatives to traditional corporations, like worker owned cooperatives. If you or anyone reading this have ideas or want to talk, my emails in my profile.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#177

Post by littletimmy »

stegosaurus wrote: post #154
stegosaurus wrote: post #75

What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? There are plenty of activities I can enjoy, and some, quite a few of them in fact, are profitable. Once you shoe-horn them into the power dynamic situation of a traditional job (with the bureaucracy that entails unless you're dealing with Actual People as opposed to corporations), suddenly a lot of the luster disappears. As a ridiculous example - I enjoy reading. I…

As an addition to this, I've struggled a lot with the concept of working for pay and only recently could I really begin to explain why. Some people would probably call it 'entitlement', but I'm not really sure that's an accurate description. As an employee, your role is essentially a permanent state of brown nosing. First of all you must convince a rich person/company that you are worthy. Then you must convince them…

I know exactly what you mean. But that's the system we live in, isn't it? One must sell one's time And one's soul to survive. What's the way out?

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#178

Post by [deleted] »

eru wrote: post #150
paulvs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, I didn't expect to enjoy learning Paraguayan traditional dancing, but it sure was fun and I'm glad I tried it. Like another poster pointed out, it's the hard work that comes first (overcoming the fear, or plugging away at the books), then comes the satisfaction. I think it must feel lonely being a great mathematician for example, knowing that everyone else has settled for less, and that only you and a few…

Math is mostly about communication with other people. Only recently have computer proofs become somewhat accepted. The holy grail is still to find simple proofs to interesting problems to enlighten people.

[deleted]

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#179

Post by freditup »

ashark wrote: post #110
stegosaurus wrote: post #75

What if the idea of work itself is what you dislike? There are plenty of activities I can enjoy, and some, quite a few of them in fact, are profitable. Once you shoe-horn them into the power dynamic situation of a traditional job (with the bureaucracy that entails unless you're dealing with Actual People as opposed to corporations), suddenly a lot of the luster disappears. As a ridiculous example - I enjoy reading. I…

Anytime I read one of those "just do what you're passionate about!" posts, or job postings that read like "we're looking for people who are passionate about [thing that literally no-one has ever been passionate about]" I try to think whether there's anything whatsoever that I'd enjoy (let alone stay passionate about) doing (at least) 40 hours a week, 49ish weeks a year. I haven't thought of anything yet. Left to my o…

Your thoughts, ashark, are exactly how I feel. I love software development and have worked long days on websites I've developed with buddies, personal projects, etc. But on the job, even doing very similar things, it's not nearly the same level of enjoyment.

I crave the freedom you mention, and it's why I loved college so much. I'd spend a couple hours a day programming, a couple hours a day at classes and doing school work, a few hours hanging out with friends, some time reading, some time as parts of different organizations, some time at church, some time playing sports etc. and I loved it. To this day I think life is best lived like that.

However, I think it's hard to find a life like that in "the real world." I wish that would change.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#180

Post by Retra »

Terr_ wrote: post #123
ashark wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anytime I read one of those "just do what you're passionate about!" posts, or job postings that read like "we're looking for people who are passionate about [thing that literally no-one has ever been passionate about]" I try to think whether there's anything whatsoever that I'd enjoy (let alone stay passionate about) doing (at least) 40 hours a week, 49ish weeks a year. I haven't thought of anything yet. Left to my o…

> "we're looking for people who are passionate about [thing that literally no-one has ever been passionate about]" Relevant satire clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz2-49q6DOI

"I'm just not passionate about sofas. God knows I've tried. Try as I might, I just can't seem to shake off this damnable sense of perspective."
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