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What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

paulgraham.com

41–50 of 332 posts

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#41
post #13

Personally, I experienced this with programming. When I learned to program in high school, it never struck me as a chore; it was always just interesting and I enjoyed it. However, I think the only reason I was able to enjoy learning programming was because of how adept I already was with computers as a "power user", because it gave me the physical skills and conceptual underpinnings required to appreciate the field.…

Is it always intimidation, though? I find programming unimaginably boring.

It probably depends on the type of programming and the challenge it presents.

A typical month, for me, has probably 5% exciting programming work. The rest is just tedious churn that you inevitably have to do to support the exciting bit.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#42
post #38

This excerpt - "what he really liked was solving problems. The text of each chapter was just some advice about solving them. He said that as soon as he got a new textbook he'd immediately work out all the problems—to the slight annoyance of his teacher, since the class was supposed to work through the book gradually." is literally me. I did that. Every year at my school I did exactly that. Once I actually turned in m…

As (failed) physics major, it sounds so strange to hear someone claim to be good at math but not physics. To me physics is 98% math. It's a few empirical facts from experiments and then bucketloads of math.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#44
post #11

Is it common for programmers to dislike debugging? I'm stunned. I never considered the possibility, it's always been something I enjoyed. I don't believe it impacts you either way in terms of capability but I imagine it impacts your desire to continue.

Well it can be frustrating in some cases, because you have to clean up other peoples messes. Then you run into bad design decisions, laziness, obvious non-caring about the code quality or other negative behaviors that angers you.

And before you go into you don't understand their constraints and so on, this applies to people who you fully well know their design and time constraints, yet still do the wrong thing while you haven't under the same constraints.

It's the whole 'hell is other people's code', and 'let's rewrite this piece of shit' tropes that programmers go through.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#45
post #42
post #38

This excerpt - "what he really liked was solving problems. The text of each chapter was just some advice about solving them. He said that as soon as he got a new textbook he'd immediately work out all the problems—to the slight annoyance of his teacher, since the class was supposed to work through the book gradually." is literally me. I did that. Every year at my school I did exactly that. Once I actually turned in m…

As (failed) physics major, it sounds so strange to hear someone claim to be good at math but not physics. To me physics is 98% math. It's a few empirical facts from experiments and then bucketloads of math.

Physics is applied math and I think that is an important distinction.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#46
Edge cases, I love exploring edge cases and even better, the intersection of edge cases (corner cases?). The more edge cases there are, the more interesting something is and sometimes they lead to discovering entire new spaces. I consider myself lucky to have stumbled into an opportunity with my startup that I find endlessly fascinating.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#47

Personally, I experienced this with programming. When I learned to program in high school, it never struck me as a chore; it was always just interesting and I enjoyed it. However, I think the only reason I was able to enjoy learning programming was because of how adept I already was with computers as a "power user", because it gave me the physical skills and conceptual underpinnings required to appreciate the field.…

> Personally, I experienced this with programming. When I learned to program in high school, it never struck me as a chore; it was always just interesting and I enjoyed it.

that was me when I picked up my first K&R book in elementary school. It was interesting and fun.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#48
post #13

Personally, I experienced this with programming. When I learned to program in high school, it never struck me as a chore; it was always just interesting and I enjoyed it. However, I think the only reason I was able to enjoy learning programming was because of how adept I already was with computers as a "power user", because it gave me the physical skills and conceptual underpinnings required to appreciate the field.…

Is it always intimidation, though? I find programming unimaginably boring.

I'm a programmer and I completely agree. When everything was new it was fun and exciting. I started programming seriously when I was 12 years old. By the time I was in college programming was an absolute chore.

Yet I do it for a living, because building things is incredibly satisfying. Ya about 90% of the time I'm kind of bored, but actually finishing things (useful things!) makes it all worth it.

Interestingly I found that I have the same feeling in other endeavors. When I remodeled my house I found construction to be just incredibly dull. But man, the result was absolutely worth it. I don't know if I've ever felt more satisfied with anything.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#49

Personally, I experienced this with programming. When I learned to program in high school, it never struck me as a chore; it was always just interesting and I enjoyed it. However, I think the only reason I was able to enjoy learning programming was because of how adept I already was with computers as a "power user", because it gave me the physical skills and conceptual underpinnings required to appreciate the field.…

I took on three new hobbies a couple of years ago. All of them had seemed interesting to me for ages, but I'd never made the time to explore them. Once I actually started, it was exhilarating. Practice was long and slow, but never boring. I'd spend hours at it and not even notice the time go by as I worked at a particular technique (especially with classical guitar). Things only got irksome if I indulged in comparing my new skill to my skill level in programming, despairing at the difference, or if an injury prevented me from doing it for awhile. But after a couple of years of daily practice, I've finally reached a level of competence in two of them (there just wasn't enough time for three) where I can feel satisfaction in my output, and am even willing to show other people.

My early education in programming followed a similar pattern, actually. I'd actively pick the brains of any teacher in high school who gave off even a hint of understanding programming or anything related. Once I'd learned everything about digital logic and did all I could on the broken Heathkit boards, my electronics teacher bought a computer for the electronics shop and let me take over his office just to get me to stop bothering him. I also resurrected a 2400 baud modem and hooked it into his local phone line. Actually, I didn't tell him about that, or the fact that I was hacking into the local university to have a poke around gopher space :P. I got some Motorola manuals, and wrote a book on assembly language programming, which I handed in at the end of the year instead of doing the regular assignments & exams.

There are many things to be passionate about. It's just a matter of identifying which ones resonate with you, and making the time.

Re: What Doesn't Seem Like Work?

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ira Glass has some advice on the issue of when you start something you enjoy, but your skill doesn't match your taste. Push through and keep practicing until your skill matches your taste. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbC4gqZGPSY

I don't think the problem is things you enjoy but don't have skill to match your taste, the issue is identifying things you would enjoy if you had more skill, so you know where it is worth investing the effort to get over the lack of current skill.

I'd argue that sometimes you don't really know what good taste is or whether or not you would enjoy something until you've acquired a certain level of competency for it. Sports, programming and math are all like this. The more you work on them the more enjoyable they become, and you'd become a lot more "tasteful".
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