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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#301

Post by scott_s »

talmand wrote: post #295
scott_s wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed his point. Once he saw what he was doing from his child's perspective , he was uncomfortable with it. Note that this is distinct from being uncomfortable with his child seeing what he is doing. I had a similar reaction after not playing many games during grad school, which was 2003 - 2010. After graduating, I picked up a PS3. Some games it wasn't too much of an issue (such as Mass Effect), but in others, i…

I think you missed my point, which is if he was uncomfortable with his child watching him play such games, don't let them watch such games. His negative reaction to "AAA" games in general because of that is what I found odd. If he no longer found the games appealing due to that then I suppose that's cool. But there are games in that space that don't fit that style of gameplay.

Again, I think you're missing it. He's not uncomfortable with his child watching him play such games. (Well, maybe he is, but that's not his point.) It was knowing that his child was watching him play such games that gave him the perspective for himself to see playing those games differently. He gained new perspective.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#302

Post by clavalle »

tormeh wrote: post #214
clavalle wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superheroes of a different era.

No, not if the comics stay true to the mythology, anyway. Norse mythology is pretty similar to Greek. The Gods aren't really heroes; they are Gods. They lack the "hero" in "superhero". The Marvel depiction of Loki is not as one-dimensional as that of Lex Luthor, for example, but the underlying myths actually depicts him a bit more nuanced still. And while the Gods are generally good, they are also at times foolish, f…

With wish fulfillment superpowers but recognizable as human.

Not all comic superheroes are two dimensional.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#303

Post by washadjeffmad »

vertex-four wrote: post #95

For those who honestly believe that women will never want to read comics - look into webcomics. A huge proportion of the reader base for a good, PG-13(-ish) webcomic will likely be female, and there's a number of webcomics that are targeted towards women. A number of these comics will eventually be printed and sold, usually via the Internet, sometimes at conventions. I went to the Thoughtbubble Comic Convention last…

Oh yeah, Cucumber Quest (http://cucumber.gigidigi.com) is pretty excellent for any age and has multiple female protagonists.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#304

Post by ChicagoDave »

I had the exact same experience about 6 years ago...my second oldest daughter (I have four) wanted comic books. She'd found some cool ones about Mary Jane Watson that were probably young adult-ish in story, but the drawings were pretty okay (nothing overtly sexual).

So we went to a comic book store and immediately the guy behind the counter jumped out and steered my kids to a very small corner in the front of his store. He looked me in the eye and said, "They really need to stay in this section."

I look at the rest of this very large store and it's a few teenagers, but mostly middle-aged men. The image I got in my head was not one of the defensible comic-book reader, but of a soft-porn environment.

So we looked at the kids comics and it was Archie and stuff. Nothing that my daughter wanted because she wanted the "drama" and "serious" tone...without the hyper-sexualized stories and images. We asked the owner and he said there was no market for those comics. They (the publishers) tried a few, and he named the exact comic my daughter had found, but those just didn't sell.

So we left with a handful of replacement comics, but we never went again and my daughter moved on, never even considering a comic book again. She reads YA novels now.

The YA novel industry is huge. I really don't understand why there's no market for YA comic books (not graphic novels). It seems odd and sad.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#305

Post by drapper »

po wrote: post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

> What's not super is that it's really the only kind.

well, there are some exceptions, like Ms. Marvel (http://marvel.com/characters/1017577/ms_marvel_kamala_khan/f...) or latest run of She-Hulk (http://marvel.com/comics/issue/49122/she-hulk_2014_8)

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#306

Post by ANTSANTS »

killertypo wrote: post #300
ANTSANTS wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Japanese manga is fully of sexy, weird, objectifying stuff that most people really wouldn't want their kids to see, but go to a bookstore in Japan and you'll also see bookcase after bookcase of manga totally appropriate for all ages with young girls pressing their nose into them. Stories about teenage girls getting picked on at school or trying to meet the right guy or saying stupid things in class. Stories about gi…

> Meanwhile, in our more "enlightened" mainstream American culture, people write angry blog posts filled with stupid impact font image macros about how they literally judged an entire medium by its cover, because the female body is offensive or something. It is absolutely offensive when it is posed in an unreal and unnatural way with impossible proportions and impossible looks. I get that they are comics, but a story…

Batman is improbably built. See how his muscles bulge preposterously from his armor? [1] In real life, most body builders focused on "aesthetics" would have to starve themselves to bring their body fat levels low enough to create that kind of appearance. They would not have the energy afterwards to serve Gotham. A fighter [2] or soldier [3] like Batman would prefer to build up "functional" muscle that will be useful in combat, and maintain much greater body fat levels to provide energy reserves in tough situations. Is Batman "offensive," or is exaggeration a basic element of art?

[1] http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Batsuit-Reveal-...

[2] http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1223/mma_2011best_29.jpg

[3] https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3c/f4/81/3cf4816e3...

I hate to respond with an image macro, but in summary: https://i.imgur.com/MMdocdc.jpg

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#307

Post by vertex-four »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #303
vertex-four wrote: post #95

For those who honestly believe that women will never want to read comics - look into webcomics. A huge proportion of the reader base for a good, PG-13(-ish) webcomic will likely be female, and there's a number of webcomics that are targeted towards women. A number of these comics will eventually be printed and sold, usually via the Internet, sometimes at conventions. I went to the Thoughtbubble Comic Convention last…

Oh yeah, Cucumber Quest ( http://cucumber.gigidigi.com ) is pretty excellent for any age and has multiple female protagonists.

Oh wow! I remember being introduced to that, and thought it was really cute, but stopped reading it due to real life things. I'll have to bookmark and catch up again.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#308

Post by saraid216 »

angersock wrote: post #248
detaro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indie game equivalent are web comics. There are really well made and interesting ones out there, although finding them isn't always easy. For some, printed versions are also available.

Going to have to second this. There's a whole range of comics catering to those more esoteric (and often quite boring, frankly) storylines, and a good many of them have books for sale. Check out Something Positive (terrible people), Stand Still, Stay Silent (kid friendly but a little dark, beautiful art), Dumbing of Age (ugh, but some people like it), Vattu (kid friendly, nice art, coming-of-age), Schlock Mercenary (…

I think Dumbing of Age is targeted at people who are post-college, not kids. A lot of the humor and depth is most manifest to people who have gone through similar crap and can look back on it nostalgically.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#309

Post by Fomite »

xienze wrote: post #199
normloman wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Expecting cultures to change and adapt is for suckers!

Sometimes you've gotta pick your battles. We're talking about comic books here. Who really cares? Why do they "need" to change?

Any why shouldn't comic books (and other media) be the battle some of us pick? Why do they need to not change? Why are you assuming that one cannot try to change comic books and also fight against things you've decided are more important?

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#310

Post by Fomite »

xienze wrote: post #130
normloman wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan there are entire genres of comics targeted towards women. Now whether they are any good, or any less sexist than male comics is debatable. Am I supposed to believe that women love stories told with words, but are incapable of appreciating stories told with pictures?

In Japan there's entire genres of comics about tentacle rape. People are different in other countries. Comics for women have been tried here. Over and over. They haven't worked. American women just aren't drawn to them. Sometimes it just is what it is!

Or alternately, "comics for women", just like "video games for women" and a thousand other products that just take something dull and derivative, slap a coat of pink paint on it and call it "done" aren't bought by women because they're smart enough to recognize crap, even when it's meant for them.

The author isn't asking for "Comics for women", he's asking for "Comics that aren't repellant to women".

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