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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#271

Post by BashiBazouk »

tsmarsh wrote: post #13

I had a similar 'revelation' with violence in video games. I knew a lot of games were violent, but it wasn't until I found my 2 year old son watching me murder human after human with a crossbow in Tomb Raider that I 'got it'. It has ruined AAA video games for me. I solved the problem by buying a Wii U. I'm not sure why that's better. I have killed hundreds of pikmin, squashed hundreds of goomba and worst of all, used…

Reminds me of my 2-3 year old watching me and getting to play GTA 5. I am sensitive to exposing him to that kind of violence, and boy is it a challenge to play that game without inciting violence or even cussing while driving around. An entire play session would be me driving out of the city as carefully as possible, then heading to some of the more abandoned parts of the map. Finding a tractor or giant dump truck and letting him drive it around, to which he absolutely loved. No ai characters were killed in these play sessions and very few were incited to yell at me...

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#272

Post by sago »

DanBC wrote: post #264
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with these dialogues. Often left-leaning types see them as justification for censorship and shaming when the real issue is market penetration and audience. I can walk my son through the girly section of 'toys r us' and see nothing but men represented as effeminate "prince" types who's only main motivation in life is finding a princess. The tumbler social justice warriors don't care about that, bein…

> The tumbler social justice warriors don't care about that Yes they do! People are constantly talking about the stupid gendering of toys that don't need to be gendered.

Right. In fact the only people I see talking about this are feminists (SJWs if you like). The only time it comes up in MRA arguments is as this kind of attempt to find a defeater.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#273

Post by bostonpete »

knowtheory wrote: post #260
jdietrich wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that don't exist. Those are the problem. It's ok to have super sexed-up comics in the store, but it's really sad that's all they have. It's a vicious cycle. Comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men, because their customers are adolescent men, because comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men. You can…

Amazon and online retail are actually a huge sociological problem in this context. If you can just order manga you like, and form bonds w/ online communities of folks w/ similar tastes on tumblr or twitter or wherever, what's the incentive to go to a physical place in your town? Gaming stores have reinvented themselves as places to play games with others, but it'd be an interesting challenge to reinvent comic shops i…

In the New England area, I think Newbury Comics has done a good job of reinventing itself -- it wasn't ever (in my memory at least) just a comics store and made a lot of its money from music for a while, but if you go in there now it's got some movies, music, a comic section/room, but it's mostly other stuff -- merchandise from trendy games, shows, movies etc. Funny/quirky gifts, toys, jewelry, etc.

Maybe doesn't appeal to die hard comic book fans, but it's a fun experience for the casual shopper, which makes it viable. My 12 year old is always excited to stop in there.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#274

Post by rostasteve »

I had a similar realization a few months ago. On special occasions people at the office will photoshop someone's face onto a superhero and send it around.

When it came time for my female manager's face to be put on a superhero, I had a seriously hard time finding a SINGLE non sexualized picture of a well known female superhero. Try it -- pick a female superhero and do a google image search. Then count the number of pages you have to navigate before you find a picture that you'd photoshop your manager onto.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#276

Post by yarou »

Articles like this further reinforce that we have major issues here in America around sexuality. Why can't we teach our children that sexuality is a positive thing, not something that's akin to commiting a capital offense? When we reinforce the negative aspects of sexuality, that leads to abnormal behaviors like nymphomania and self-destructive tendencies. i understand that there are gender objectification issues, but I think that misses the point entirely.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#277

Post by Fomite »

FollowSteph3 wrote: post #230
barryfandango wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The titles already exist. The excellent clerk at my local comic store made me a long list of american and international series for my daughter to check out and I've been very impressed. Most of them have to be ordered though, and none are prominently displayed. So it isn't so much that the titles aren't being created, but I think you're right that the demand will affect what is visible on store shelves.

Any specific ones from that list that you recommend?

Mouse Guard was excellent. Sometimes a little dark, but honestly, there are a lot of childhood classics that are more than a little dark.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#278

Post by Fomite »

LanceH wrote: post #201
mcphage wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many other nations have a wider audience for comics, but in the US we've followed your advice so long that all the audiences that aren't adolescent males have been pushed away. Which leads to where we are: comic book companies chasing after a tiny fraction of their potential audience, because they can't make comics for anyone else, because not enough others are hbotherin…

It is not the males pushing people away from comics. It's exactly the opposite. This is a group engaged in an activity which has long been looked down upon. Reading comics was seen as merely childish. Men embraced it, get called basement dwellers and just go on enjoying the things they enjoy. Then someone sees they are having a good time in spite of decades of being called childish and now suddenly they are sexist fo…

It is possible to be both excluded and exclusionary at the same time.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#279

Post by Fomite »

yarou wrote: post #276

Articles like this further reinforce that we have major issues here in America around sexuality. Why can't we teach our children that sexuality is a positive thing, not something that's akin to commiting a capital offense? When we reinforce the negative aspects of sexuality, that leads to abnormal behaviors like nymphomania and self-destructive tendencies. i understand that there are gender objectification issues, bu…

Because a great deal of this isn't just about "sexuality", and sexuality isn't necessarily a positive thing when the message to one gender is "You are an object to be enjoyed for another's pleasure" and to the other is "Objectify away! And if you don't, something is wrong with you."

And no one here has suggested it's "akin to committing a capital offense" but you. "It would be nice to take my young daughter to do something she wanted to do, and find stories about women with clothing that doesn't look like it's painted on" is pretty far away from calling something a "capital offense".

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#280

Post by Fomite »

spuz wrote: post #76
vidarh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like what he "gets" is how hard it is to notice a lot of the sexualization when you don't get to see it from their side. It's easy to e.g. dismiss the way female superheroes (and villains) are being dismissed with references to how the men are also in tight outfits (as you can find examples of in this thread). It's harder to dismiss the difference between your son having no problems finding something he lik…

Ok, that makes sense. I guess I can see how that kind of dissonance would then apply when thinking about women and technology.

Consider the number of replies on HN and other sources that are essentially "Well I don't see it..." or "Not at my office..." rather than taking women at their word for their own experience.
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