Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

itinthed.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 359 posts

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#261

Post by jimbokun »

perakojotgenije wrote: post #81

I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…

From the Wikipedia page on the "Golden Age" of comics.

"Although the creation of the superhero was the Golden Age's most significant contribution to pop culture, many genres appeared on the newsstands, including humor, Western, romance, and jungle stories. The Steranko History of Comics 2 notes that it was the non-superhero characters of Dell Comics — most notably the licensed Walt Disney animated character comics — that outsold all the supermen of the day. Dell Comics, featuring such licensed movie and literary properties as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Roy Rogers, and Tarzan, boasted circulations of over two million copies a month, and Donald Duck writer-artist Carl Barks is considered one of the era's major talents."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Comic_Books

There are also Wikipedia pages for Western and Romance comics.

So there used to be other kinds of comics in the U.S. As mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, the Comics Code Authority seems to have marked the end of non-superhero comics.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#262

Post by fenomas »

tptacek wrote: post #194
fenomas wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the article, its server is [edit:was] down. I was replying to the parent comments.

Probably not a good idea to have one's young daughter read Cerebus is I guess what I'm saying.

Sure - nor anything else I mentioned, nor anything in the post I replied to. They were just some non-superhero comics.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#263

Post by rabbyte »

rayiner wrote: post #65

As the father of a daughter, and someone who normally gets worked up about this sort of thing, I don't see the big deal. I've always viewed comics as equivalent to daytime soap operas made more pornographic to suit teenage male tastes. What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls? Is it going to lead to higher paying jobs or more equal gender roles in the home? Is it going to lead to greater…

> What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls?

You understand you're essentially saying comic books are not for girls? That seems to be the conclusion the daughter was nervously coming to when she asked her dad where the "real" comic books were. Also, there's nothing about digging a ditch that's exclusively male. The big deal might be something you can't quite see right now.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#264

Post by DanBC »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #213
po wrote: post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

That's the problem with these dialogues. Often left-leaning types see them as justification for censorship and shaming when the real issue is market penetration and audience. I can walk my son through the girly section of 'toys r us' and see nothing but men represented as effeminate "prince" types who's only main motivation in life is finding a princess. The tumbler social justice warriors don't care about that, bein…

> The tumbler social justice warriors don't care about that

Yes they do! People are constantly talking about the stupid gendering of toys that don't need to be gendered.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#265

Post by jimbokun »

po wrote: post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

Half baked idea for broadening the U.S. comics market.

There is some familiarity with manga in the U.S. I've seen tankobon format translations in Barnes and Noble and public libraries. But there's not the same association with super heroes for books in that format.

So create new works of English language sequential art, but publish them in tankobon format. You could market them to whatever market segment you like, without the superheroes-for-adolescent-males stereotype. You could connect with the existing manga fans first (many of whom already want to prove "Comic books aren't just for teenage boys!"), then broaden out from there.

Has anyone already tried this?

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#266

Post by transfire »

Just be honest. Seven year old girls aren't stupid. "Most comics are made for older guys and teen age boys that don't have girlfriends. So they try to make them feel better about it by making comics with half-naked big boobed women. Sad perhaps, but such is life." Then proceed to show her the many comics she would like, from Archie to Oz, there are still plenty of options. The new Ms. Marvel is a particular stand out.

Trying to convey this as some sort of social ailment is rather silly. It's simply human nature. And unless you think we should all become asexual, it isn't going to change.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#267

Post by theorique »

LanceH wrote: post #201
mcphage wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many other nations have a wider audience for comics, but in the US we've followed your advice so long that all the audiences that aren't adolescent males have been pushed away. Which leads to where we are: comic book companies chasing after a tiny fraction of their potential audience, because they can't make comics for anyone else, because not enough others are hbotherin…

It is not the males pushing people away from comics. It's exactly the opposite. This is a group engaged in an activity which has long been looked down upon. Reading comics was seen as merely childish. Men embraced it, get called basement dwellers and just go on enjoying the things they enjoy. Then someone sees they are having a good time in spite of decades of being called childish and now suddenly they are sexist fo…

1985: "Ha, look at those comic book guys. What losers! No girls would ever be interested in them."

2015: "Ha, look at those comic book nerds. What misogynists! No girls would ever be interested in them."

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#268

Post by vacri »

ceejayoz wrote: post #124
perakojotgenije wrote: post #81

I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…

I grew up on Asterix and Tintin. How is Asterix not a superhero, though?

Asterix is an adventurer, not a superhero. He doesn't go around righting wrongs, he has adventures.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#269

Post by jff »

angersock wrote: post #248
detaro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indie game equivalent are web comics. There are really well made and interesting ones out there, although finding them isn't always easy. For some, printed versions are also available.

Going to have to second this. There's a whole range of comics catering to those more esoteric (and often quite boring, frankly) storylines, and a good many of them have books for sale. Check out Something Positive (terrible people), Stand Still, Stay Silent (kid friendly but a little dark, beautiful art), Dumbing of Age (ugh, but some people like it), Vattu (kid friendly, nice art, coming-of-age), Schlock Mercenary (…

Something Positive is a wall-of-text comic which, unfortunately also has very bad writing in its walls of text.

I'm embarrassed to say I read the entire thing in high school in 2004, but in my defense I was starved for content and didn't know any better.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#270

Post by sago »

dragonwriter wrote: post #254
sago wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with these dialogues. Often right-leaning types see them as ways to avoid having to take any responsibility or action for anything by claiming the real issues are things that are the neutral mechanics of an impersonal market. There, fixed.

I think parent and grandparent posts both have somewhat valid if overstated points, but have improperly used "left-wing" and "right-wing" in place of "pro-censorship" and "anti-censorship". Pro-censorship arguments can come from the right (and often do), and anti-censorship arguments in favor or personal choice driving availability can come from the left (and often do.) Usually, there's slightly different subject mat…

I think that making it about 'censorship' immediately betrays a kind of knee-jerk status quo defending.

There are some folks who would want to see censorship of this kind of material, I'm sure. But I've not met them. And it certainly isn't what the vast, vast majority of feminists and social justice campaigners are interested in.

I don't want censorship for anything. I think people should be perfectly entitled to produce comics with toxic representations of blacks, Jews, Christians, LGBT+ folks, whoever. But I want to agitate and educate for a culture in which such representations are rightly considered unpleasant and unwelcome to most people. I want to change the culture so that those kind of facile objectifications are seen for what they are, and where most people reject them accordingly.

The idea that this is about censorship, is a strawman, as far as I can see. Remember Voltaire.

Unfortunately, it is common for some people to confuse organisation against something with censorship of it.

Post reply on HN