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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#251
post #111
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. When the vast majority of their output is targeting a mostly male demographic, and being sold almost exclusively in an environment that attracts mostly men, that may be so. But it is a situation of their own making by making their product offering so niche. > are really only…

> When the vast majority of their output is targeting a mostly male demographic, and being sold almost exclusively in an environment that attracts mostly men, that may be so. But it is a situation of their own making by making their product offering so niche. I think you've got the order of things mixed up. No company intentionally wants to cut their customer base in half. They've tried to attract female readers. The…

> And don't forget that comics _used_ to be sold in book stores, gas stations, etc. Now they aren't.

Most of the general book stores I've been in recently say you're wrong.

Also, kids used to not have ubiquitous, interactive, 3D, pocketable animated stories, so, you know, the competition for comic books has changed.

Complaining that comic books have become less ubiquitous are more alternatives have become ubiquitous is like complaining that radio dramas no longer have mass market appeal.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#252
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Image doesn't really work for daughters. http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/savage-dragon/18-1.jpg I saw that cover in a comic store in my 20s, and it made me do a "what am I doing with my life?" reaction.

I'm not familiar with Image anymore, but I remember Jim Lee's Wildcats and it was generally "supersexy females with ridiculous breast implants". And they had a couple more superhero teams, whose names I can't remember, which were similar to Wildcats in this regard.

Gen13. It's possible that it was meant as irony in just how far you can take cheesecake.

(Jim Lee got bought out by DC, so those characters are all part of DC continuity now.)

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "In this case freedom of artistic expression on one side, and anti-sexualism of women (unisex) on other side." To be clear I would never advocate against artistic freedom. The problem is with the big comic book companies. They should make the decision that they aren't going to sexualise women in comics for no good reason anymore. The artists who truly enjoy making that work can continue to do so at another company…

You can't just trample on people's rights because you disagree with them. Nor say "it's OK that it exists, it just can't be popular."

How is that trampling on anyones rights? Nobody has the right to be popular...

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#254
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with these dialogues. Often left-leaning types see them as justification for censorship and shaming when the real issue is market penetration and audience. I can walk my son through the girly section of 'toys r us' and see nothing but men represented as effeminate "prince" types who's only main motivation in life is finding a princess. The tumbler social justice warriors don't care about that, bein…

That's the problem with these dialogues. Often right-leaning types see them as ways to avoid having to take any responsibility or action for anything by claiming the real issues are things that are the neutral mechanics of an impersonal market. There, fixed.

I think parent and grandparent posts both have somewhat valid if overstated points, but have improperly used "left-wing" and "right-wing" in place of "pro-censorship" and "anti-censorship".

Pro-censorship arguments can come from the right (and often do), and anti-censorship arguments in favor or personal choice driving availability can come from the left (and often do.)

Usually, there's slightly different subject matter that left- and right-wing pro-censorship folks target, though sexualized images of women tend to be targeted by both, though with different rationales.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the article, its server is [edit:was] down. I was replying to the parent comments.

Probably not a good idea to have one's young daughter read Cerebus is I guess what I'm saying.

As opposed to R. Crumb?

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#257
post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

>Japanese manga is fully of sexy, weird, objectifying stuff that most people really wouldn't want their kids to see, but go to a bookstore in Japan and you'll also see bookcase after bookcase of manga totally appropriate for all ages with young girls pressing their nose into them. Stories about teenage girls getting picked on at school or trying to meet the right guy or saying stupid things in class. Stories about girls who are in bands and office workers and every possible thing.

I, uh, read a lot of manga intended for teenaged Japanese girls. The ironic thing is, a lot of times even the manga intended for girls is mildly sexualized to please members of the peripheral male demographics, yet the original female audience doesn't run away screaming in response. Guys enjoy "girls comics," and vice versa, and growing up around female anime and manga fans, I never really questioned it. Stories about girls trying to choose between a group of handsome suitors, or stories about guys surrounded by improbably attractive women. Cutesy slice-of-life, or ultra-violence. Ones with boobies and panty shots out the wazoo, or ones with homoerotic undertones... we didn't care, we watched it all together.

Meanwhile, in our more "enlightened" mainstream American culture, people write angry blog posts filled with stupid impact font image macros about how they literally judged an entire medium by its cover, because the female body is offensive or something.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#258
post #142
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a…

> Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. And it's interesting to ask why , when kids elsewhere do, and when US kids used to. > I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a little market research before going in this direction rather than intentionally alienating younger readers. Why would assume this, given how badly they've repeatedly misread their markets, and how badly they've been managed (e.g.…

> Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. > And it's interesting to ask why, when kids elsewhere do, and when US kids used to.

Yeah, interesting question. I believe the reason is many more easily accessible alternatives for entertainment. Computer games are a major factor, but also a larger amount of animation and childrens tv.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#260
post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

>This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that don't exist. Those are the problem. It's ok to have super sexed-up comics in the store, but it's really sad that's all they have. It's a vicious cycle. Comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men, because their customers are adolescent men, because comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men. You can…

Amazon and online retail are actually a huge sociological problem in this context. If you can just order manga you like, and form bonds w/ online communities of folks w/ similar tastes on tumblr or twitter or wherever, what's the incentive to go to a physical place in your town?

Gaming stores have reinvented themselves as places to play games with others, but it'd be an interesting challenge to reinvent comic shops in that same way.

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