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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many other nations have a wider audience for comics, but in the US we've followed your advice so long that all the audiences that aren't adolescent males have been pushed away. Which leads to where we are: comic book companies chasing after a tiny fraction of their potential audience, because they can't make comics for anyone else, because not enough others are hbotherin…

Your talking about the tail wagging the dog. Comics are how they are because the market imploded and they have to appeal to the niche of of niche that is their customer base. When I was a kid in NYC, I remember going to the newsstand with my dad and they had a few racks of the mass market comics. I'd get spider man and superman, my younger sister would get Donald Duck and similar things. Today there's no newsstand an…

> Comics are how they are because the market imploded and they have to appeal to the niche of of niche that is their customer base.

It's been a long time since that implosion, that isn't an excuse any longer for why comics continue to alienate new readers and reinforce stereotypes.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#182
post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

I know exactly how you feel. For the past year, my main gaming rig has been on another continent and I've been making do with what I could play on a cruddy little netbook running Linux. It's probably been my best year of gaming ever. I've been an old west robot prospector. I've seen a man have sex with a giant goldfish. I've tried to get a mouse to wear a hat. I've consoled a grieving child. After all that was done,…

> I've tried to get a mouse to wear a hat.

...What game is that?

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#183
post #166

Why comics? There are plenty of good books (even with pictures) for the girls of that age. Comics were never supposed to be educational or have any non-entertainment value and primary tarted at hormones soaked male teens. Take her to the books store instead. You don't complain that nobody does piano recital during pop concerts -- either go there or not. Actually, I find annoying the trend of complaining about anythin…

> Comics were never supposed to be educational or have any non-entertainment value and primary tarted at hormones soaked male teens.

This hasn't been true of comic books for several decades now. The medium has many examples of high quality, well written, and unique books. Also, the demographics of comics has changed many times over the last 100 years, the focus on men over the last couple of decades is recent phenomenon in the grand scheme of things.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#184
It's no coincidence that Comic Books and Video Games have gone hand in hand. A long time ago there used to be quite a number of comics that targeted young kids, girls and people other than the 11-15 year old male demographic. There's also been lots of effort put into making games that will appeal to people outside of that demographic.

You could say, numbers don't lie, that those titles weren't being sold in enough quantities to keep them alive...and in some sense that's true. But how many ultra-niche comics with bizarre indie storylines stay alive year after year?

Actually a very large number of women I know ended up just reading Manga, they managed to find storylines and characterizations that they enjoyed. And now those women are watching cartoons, movies and dramas based on those same Manga. Most comic book stores you go into have a Manga section these days. But Manga is also full of titles with lots of sexualization. Like anything you have to be a smart consumer and not write off an entire class of entertainment, like movies, just because adult film stores exist.

It's the same with video games, after decades of struggle to find the market, some surveys are showing that women make up a significant portion of computer-game players: with leading games like The Sims, Bejeweled and WoW having huge populations of women playing them.

So the market is there, it's just that the makers are not doing a good enough job of hitting that market. Console game makers are just now starting to learn from computer game makers, and we're starting to see decent titles (mostly PC ports) to woo the other 50% of the market. But they too have really put out some crap trying to find that market.

But here's the truth, the women in mainstream super hero comic books are barely anatomically correct, but so are the men. Average characters possess exaggerated musculature not even the Greek gods possessed. And everybody has fantastical powers. These aren't meant to be forms of entertainment that represent reality...even a little bit. They're meant to be highly exaggerated depictions of reality, but the vector of exaggeration is very obviously on stereotypical male vectors.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#185

I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…

I grew up in Sweden so I rather fittingly had a school library with comics about norse mythology. [1] Also I think everyone in Sweden has heard of Goliat. [2] [1] http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhall_%28tecknad_serie%29 [2] http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliat_%28tecknad_serie%29

Superheroes of a different era.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#186
post #13

I had a similar 'revelation' with violence in video games. I knew a lot of games were violent, but it wasn't until I found my 2 year old son watching me murder human after human with a crossbow in Tomb Raider that I 'got it'. It has ruined AAA video games for me. I solved the problem by buying a Wii U. I'm not sure why that's better. I have killed hundreds of pikmin, squashed hundreds of goomba and worst of all, used…

I could be wrong but it seems you have issues with the idea of games for adults and games for kids. The fact that a game is unsuitable for your child to play, or even watch you play, prevents you from enjoying certain games seems just wrong. Did you stop watching movies rated PG-13 or higher as well?

And why is it wrong for young children to understand the concept of life and death? I mean, an overly gory game is one thing but I don't think my ten year old slaughtering opponents by the dozens in Minecraft is going to cause her to grow up with psychopathic urges.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#187
post #35

Maybe it's me but I cannot figure out what point the post is making. What exactly does the author 'get' now? How does the sexualisation of comic book characters relate to how women experience the tech industry? I'm not saying there isn't a link, but the author doesn't explain it from his point of view. I have to admit I am a little discouraged by the way the author handles his interactions with his daughter. To expla…

This essay is part of a larger body of narratives about men not understanding sexism, or at least not really internalizing how pervasive it is, until it directly effects their wife/girlfriend/daughter.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many other nations have a wider audience for comics, but in the US we've followed your advice so long that all the audiences that aren't adolescent males have been pushed away. Which leads to where we are: comic book companies chasing after a tiny fraction of their potential audience, because they can't make comics for anyone else, because not enough others are hbotherin…

Your talking about the tail wagging the dog. Comics are how they are because the market imploded and they have to appeal to the niche of of niche that is their customer base. When I was a kid in NYC, I remember going to the newsstand with my dad and they had a few racks of the mass market comics. I'd get spider man and superman, my younger sister would get Donald Duck and similar things. Today there's no newsstand an…

> Donald Duck and similar things.

Yeah exactly, it's very hard to find comics like this anymore. I had a friend who used to love Archie comics for example. Good luck finding those anywhere these days.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#189

This is an American problem. In Europe I grew up with Tin Tin, Jo, Zette & Joko but also John Difool and Nikopol. Got to a comic store in Paris an there's an abundance of comics that are 'real' and kids friendly. No boobies or asses etc.

I find this interesting when you think America is considered to be much more prudish than Europe. Anecdotally it seems that although sex and nudity is less taboo in Europe it isn't abused in the way it is in America.

It's not really that weird, though; both behaviors are a result of a lack of maturity dealing with the subject, as taboos often are.

In a comparable situation, the Catholic countries which were/are more devoted (and often fanatic, such as in the Inquisition) are also the ones that have the most blasphemous slang and insults. Spain in particular has a whole host of them involving religious figures (God, the Virgin Mary, etc) and scatological acts.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#190
He's JUST NOW REALIZING this? Modern comics are the most sexually objectifying medium in the world, second only to straight pornography.

I always thought it was fucked up, even as a kid, how crazily unrealistic and sexualized comics were. Like, I knew it was wrong that women were being portrayed this way. But I still bought the comics of course.

If you think the way women are portrayed in video games and comics is normal, you are honestly messed up. The most scary thing about this article is that it took him this long to figure this out.

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