What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me • Hacker News Board

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#91

Post by thristian » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:12 PM UTC

perakojotgenije wrote: post #81

I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…

Read up on the history of the Comics Code Authority[1]; I suspect that after the Comics Code was introduced, the remaining comic publishers were over-eager to prove their products were the exact opposite of the content prohibited by the Code, setting the thematic pendulum forever swinging toward and away from that content, instead of exploring broader themes.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#92

Post by edwinjm » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:12 PM UTC

I looked in this online Belgian strip store and for the Dutch language market (quite small demographic), I could find 5 (five) titles for girls! And I'm pretty sure there's more (Noortje, Tina...)

http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-mooie-navels-bestelle... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-girlz-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-kathys-kat-bestellen.... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-dance-academy-bestell... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-claire-bestellen.asp

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#93

Post by icebraining » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #65

As the father of a daughter, and someone who normally gets worked up about this sort of thing, I don't see the big deal. I've always viewed comics as equivalent to daytime soap operas made more pornographic to suit teenage male tastes. What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls? Is it going to lead to higher paying jobs or more equal gender roles in the home? Is it going to lead to greater…

Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives?

It certainly did for me. Reading Bill Watterson, Quino, André Franquin, Frank Giroud and a few others had a great impact in my childhood.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#94

Post by Kenji » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #41

I'm surprised at the number of comments in this thread excusing it because of the market. The fact that nearly everyone who has made that point felt the need to create a new account to do so is very telling. The market is influenced heavily by human beings. And no human being is morally perfect. There are lots of comics that sexualise women because there are lots of guys who, for some reason, enjoy seeing sexual cart…

"There have been markets for plenty of things that we decided as a society aren't morally right to sell anymore."

You want to argue that comics with sexualized women (or men, it doesn't matter who) aren't morally right to sell? Are you out of your mind? Let's go back to the fig leaf, shall we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_leaf Our society is becoming more and more prude again.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#95

Post by vertex-four » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:18 PM UTC

For those who honestly believe that women will never want to read comics - look into webcomics. A huge proportion of the reader base for a good, PG-13(-ish) webcomic will likely be female, and there's a number of webcomics that are targeted towards women. A number of these comics will eventually be printed and sold, usually via the Internet, sometimes at conventions.

I went to the Thoughtbubble Comic Convention last year in the UK, and returned with a hefty bag full of comics that do not exaggerate sexual characteristics (or, in fact, mention sex at all in most cases), focusing on good art and a compelling storyline. Some of these are webcomics, some were designed to be sold as graphic novels and serial comics.

The comic book store is a remarkably poor selection of what's out there, and I think they might've got themselves into a recursive image problem - they stock primarily comics for a certain audience, so only that audience go there, so any change is not welcomed.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#96

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

misterdai wrote: post #90

While I can understand how part of his post is about the way women are portrayed physically in those comics. I'm not so sure on his examples he picked in reference to his children and their unsuitability. I already commented on how I wasn't sure if Batman was suitable for his 5 year old, given the nature of some lines, but some examples he picked in reference to his 7 year old daughter were a stretch. Power Girl: Hav…

Most of the shops I frequent have a young readers section. Diamond (the only North American comic book distributor) even has a young readers section of their release list. The author of the article clearly thinks comics are intended for children, when only a small portion are.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#97

Post by jdietrich » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

po wrote: post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

>This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that don't exist. Those are the problem. It's ok to have super sexed-up comics in the store, but it's really sad that's all they have.

It's a vicious cycle. Comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men, because their customers are adolescent men, because comic book stores sell products that appeal to adolescent men.

You can easily find English-language translations of the kind of Manga you describe, or of Franco-Belgian comics, but most American comic book stores won't make any effort to stock them, because they don't expect to sell them.

Here in Europe the comics market is more diverse, but that's as much an accident of history as anything else. For "normal" comic shops to exist, you need both a tradition of "normal" comics and a market for them, neither of which really exists in the US. You had Stan Lee and Siegel & Shuster, we had Hergé, Franquin and Peyo, and from there we diverged.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#98

Post by vilda » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #41

I'm surprised at the number of comments in this thread excusing it because of the market. The fact that nearly everyone who has made that point felt the need to create a new account to do so is very telling. The market is influenced heavily by human beings. And no human being is morally perfect. There are lots of comics that sexualise women because there are lots of guys who, for some reason, enjoy seeing sexual cart…

That's the typical conflict between liberals and left wings in politics. The conflict between freedom and "good". In this case freedom of artistic expression on one side, and anti-sexualism of women (unisex) on other side.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#99

Post by junto » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:23 PM UTC

misterdai wrote: post #90

While I can understand how part of his post is about the way women are portrayed physically in those comics. I'm not so sure on his examples he picked in reference to his children and their unsuitability. I already commented on how I wasn't sure if Batman was suitable for his 5 year old, given the nature of some lines, but some examples he picked in reference to his 7 year old daughter were a stretch. Power Girl: Hav…

Exactly. More importantly the store owner stocks what he sells, or what he thinks sells. If more 7 year old girls came into the store everyday, he might stock something more appropriate for that audience. It is like asking a Harley Davidson dealer whether he stocks Toyota Prius's.

Young teen males buy these comics because there are half-naked, caricatured, over-sized breasted women in them. Later on they just buy porn mags, or more often these these days, just download porn from the internet.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#100

Post by normloman » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #48

normloman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that was the point of the article. Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. Also, there's a difference between comics and romance novels. Comics are a medium, while romance novels are just one type of book. A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one typ…

> Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience. I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. They've attempted female-targeted comic books over the years and they don't sell. Not really worth spinning your wheels on something that's n…

Sure, they've attempted female-targeted comic books. They were bland, pandering, and universally sucked. They thought they knew what women wanted, and they don't.

If they want more female readership, here's all they need to do: Make the same comics you've been making, just without the giganto tits and sexy poses. Women enjoy comics for the same reason as men: great art, great story lines, and lots of action. It's the sexualization of female characters that excludes them.