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How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

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Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#151
post #99

It's a wonder to me how no Verizon competitor has jumped at the opportunity to advertise this on a large scale with a message along the lines "it's evil, we don't do that". If the users really care about this issue, that's what would happen on a functioning market anyway...

It's because the competitors do this too.

Not really. Even AT&T doesn't do this (they did at one point, but were apparently called out on it and stopped doing it), and they're pretty damn scummy.

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#152
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't feed them garbage. Verizon operates at the network layer - if you are on their network presumably they will copy the real value over your garbage value. If you aren't on their network then they can check IP address and ignore values not from the Verizon subnets. There are a couple of other solutions you haven't mentions: VPNs: Annoying and currently too hard for most people. Perhaps it is time for device (P…

True, but an enterprising individual could write an extension to cause non-Verizon users to start feeding fake unique identifiers into their own streams. Heck, you may even be able to hijack a website login using it.

Sadly it'd probably be quite easy for Turn to ignore headers like those coming from non-Verizon IP space

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#153
Verizon really does come across as a Bond-style corporate villain in stories posted to Hacker News. I'm currently a TMobile customer, and I wonder how many of Verizon's shenanigans are actually just the common MO of all American telecoms.

It would otherwise seem egregious if only Verizon is throttling customers on "unlimited" plans, and only Verizon is selling their privacy for money, and only Verizon is pushing garbage smartphones onto customers that don't know any better.

How can they be so big if they suck so much ass? Are they successful only because they get their network deployment right? Are regulatory barriers protecting them from competition (I find that hard to believe because wireless, unlike broadband, seems to have multiple competitors in every market).

Maybe we just need to take public spectrum away from these donkeys and give it up for use by ad-hoc technologies. I suspect that if we make some standards (or even just broad rules of the road) some peer2peer telecom technologies might emerge and surprise us with their quality (just like BitTorrent is surprisingly good for file downloads, even though its decentralized completely).

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#154
post #15

My guess is that the "entrepreneurial" solution here would be a combination of: - A browser that doesn't support cookies and provides the server with a client controlled session-id (perhaps a user-id also). - Only uses SSL sessions to avoid middle-box injection of HTML headers (this still leaves the provider with the ability to inject data as IP options / TCP headers). - A micropayment solution that allows content pr…

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Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but an enterprising individual could write an extension to cause non-Verizon users to start feeding fake unique identifiers into their own streams. Heck, you may even be able to hijack a website login using it.

something like this? https://github.com/lightswitch05/Bogus_X-UIDH

Exactly. But instead of using it to try to change your UIDH within Verizon, it should encourage non-Verizon customers to just pollute the space with random UIDH values from all over the place.

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#157
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPN is insanely easy today How do I install a VPN on my SmartTV exactly? How do I make it actually work , even using VPN-on-a-router, given the importance CDNs have and how they use the location of your DNS resolver to attempt to give you nearest copies? How do I explain to the hypothetical 68 yo grandmother why she has to disable the VPN to use (Australian geoblocked catch-up TV Service) iView and then reenable it t…

Why are you even letting your SmartTV connect to the internet at all? Those things are horribly insecure and just spy on you anyway.

Convenience vs. security. It's incredibly convenient to be able to stream Netflix on a TV without having to purchase some other device, use multiple remotes, etc. I would say privacy-conscious consumers are likely the minority. I'd imagine most consumers would rather be able to watch movies with the push of a button than worry about the implications of letting their TV connect to the Internet.

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#158
post #129
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's important that you always be free to come to your own conclusions on such matters as well. I completely agree, but it's equally important not to be too dogmatic about it. For example, to what government do you pay taxes?

Not trying to be sarcastic, but is "too dogmatic" a different way of saying "too principled?" I pay taxes to several entities, including the government of the United States of America and the state of Washington. These taxes are non-voluntary and coerced from me under threat of force.

"These taxes are non-voluntary and coerced from me under threat of force."

False. You can move to another country whose values/morals you agree with more, become a citizen, and renounce your American Citizenship. It's by no means easy but completely doable. You still live here and pay taxes to the US government because your "principles" don't yet outweigh the convenience of living where you do. Make no mistake, America has done, continues to do, and probably will do in the future, utterly terrible, immoral shit.

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you know a lot more than I, and you're pushing the boundaries of my limited knowledge, but I read a bit on some things you mentioned... I don't follow how the PreMasterSecret incorporates the ClientHello; PreMasterSecret seems to be just a protocol version and some random bytes. As for the Finished hash check, I didn't know about that, but can't a server complicit with the MITM (i.e., a site wanting to buy c…

Complicit endpoints could just work with Verizon to enable a server to server API to get the subscriber ID of a particular TCP connection. In fact, since this is non visible to end users, if Verizon is clever, that's what they'll do. Then it would not have this public visibility.

I was going for a more direct analogue, and how inserting the ID is more seamless than a backend query, and how tampering with SSL is more technically interesting to me, but yes, you're right. Good point on how it would not be detectable. I wonder how many ISPs are doing it right now...

Re: How Verizon and Turn Defeat Browser Privacy Protections

#160
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't feed them garbage. Verizon operates at the network layer - if you are on their network presumably they will copy the real value over your garbage value. If you aren't on their network then they can check IP address and ignore values not from the Verizon subnets. There are a couple of other solutions you haven't mentions: VPNs: Annoying and currently too hard for most people. Perhaps it is time for device (P…

True, but an enterprising individual could write an extension to cause non-Verizon users to start feeding fake unique identifiers into their own streams. Heck, you may even be able to hijack a website login using it.

> True, but an enterprising individual could write an extension to cause non-Verizon users to start feeding fake unique identifiers into their own streams.

nl (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890677) addressed this:

> If you aren't on their network then they can check IP address and ignore values not from the Verizon subnets.

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