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Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

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Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#21

Post by arnsholt »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

Latin is not magical. While your idea is old enough to be mostly quaint and charming, the fact of the matter is that it's completely unrealistic. Not only that; it's already been tried, although using Sanskrit, not Latin. You've basically rediscovered a bad idea from the 80ies

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#22

Post by sqrt17 »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

There's nothing special about latin.

If you teach people the grammar of a language throroughly, and expose them to all sorts of historic, philosophical and poetic writings, they will also learn some abstract thinking.

For most foreign languages, it's considered more useful to be able to do trifling things like buy food, find shelter, or write business letters.

Romans had some of these woes, but their empire-building efforts and the ensuing plundering and enslaving of half of Europe (and a corresponding part of Northern Africa) allowed them to employ philosophers and poets that were not caught up in the rat race that most such people in the 19th and 20th Century were subjected to.

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#23

Post by Osmium »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

> Latin gave me the ability to ... be able to dissect the English language and multiple other languages quite mathematically and systematically

A formal study of linguistics will do a much better job of this than a study of Latin (of course, there's no reason one can't do both).

> If we were to reintroduce Latin, I think society's language skills would improve and thereby communication would improve.

Do society's language skills need improving? I realise you haven't said this, but there is a common myth that somehow language use is deteriorating, when actually it's just changing. This, of course, is nothing new [1].

[1] http://grammar.about.com/od/readingsonlanguage/a/The-Endless...

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#24

Post by ashark »

gwern wrote: post #14
danielweber wrote: post #7

Math question 7, what are the sub-units of pounds? Is it something like pence?

Just another example of things we have mercifully forgotten. See Isaac Asimov's "Forget It" essay http://www.kkbooks.net/ScienceFiction/Asimov37/27283.html (on a similarly antiquated math textbook).

I think it's interesting that one of his major examples of useless, forgettable knowledge is essentially arithmetic with bases other than 10, which is back in style for grades as early as elementary school and often advanced on this very site as an important skill for children to learn (for some reason—I don't really get why).

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#25

Post by Svenstaro »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

I respectfully disagree. I had Latin in school for 7 years and while I didn't learn as much as I should have, I know enough to discuss about. Latin, as all other languages, wasn't designed, it grew organically. As such, it has many annoying inconsistencies and I don't feel that they add much to the language.

Why do you feel Latin might be part of the key to artificial intelligence?

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#26

Post by ghaff »

arnsholt wrote: post #21
nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

Latin is not magical. While your idea is old enough to be mostly quaint and charming, the fact of the matter is that it's completely unrealistic. Not only that; it's already been tried, although using Sanskrit, not Latin. You've basically rediscovered a bad idea from the 80ies

I suspect that a lot of the "Latin helps you with English" meme comes from the coming together of a couple of things:

1. Some schools wanting to teach Latin at least in part simply because it was part of a classical Western curriculum

but 2. Wanting to justify that inclusion based on more modern practical concerns than it just being something properly educated people learn.

Nothing against Latin or classical Western liberal arts. But the idea that Latin uniquely helps with English is sort of silly.

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#27

Post by Zigurd »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

Mandarin and Simplified Chinese is a popular course these days, even in some high schools. If you want something different from the way Westerners think about writing, grammar, and spoken language, and a different body of literature, there it is. And it's more useful in practical ways.

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#28

Post by ghaff »

ashark wrote: post #24
gwern wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just another example of things we have mercifully forgotten. See Isaac Asimov's "Forget It" essay http://www.kkbooks.net/ScienceFiction/Asimov37/27283.html (on a similarly antiquated math textbook).

I think it's interesting that one of his major examples of useless, forgettable knowledge is essentially arithmetic with bases other than 10, which is back in style for grades as early as elementary school and often advanced on this very site as an important skill for children to learn (for some reason—I don't really get why).

For one thing, there's simply the utility of other bases in programming although I imagine this utility is less widespread than when a greater percentage of programmers were working at lower levels.

More broadly, I gather we're having another iteration of attempting to teach mathematical principles rather than rote calculation. Or, to put it cynically in the words of Tom Lehrer speaking about New Math: "The important thing is to understand what you're doing, not to get the right answer." Personally, I'm somewhat torn and it definitely depends on the individual.

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#29

Post by xacaxulu »

nashashmi wrote: post #13

I learned Latin in high school, and I learned from an old moving picture and from some old CEO who was one of the few who went to college in his time where he picked to major in Latin and math, that Latin had a far more mainstream role in academia, such that it could propel one to a CEO position of a really big company and that it could be used as one of the basis of a college entrance exam. Latin gave me the ability…

I was lucky enough to go to a private school where Latin/Logic/Rhetoric/Greek were taught as core subjects and I've also found Latin incredibly helpful in my life. I found learning French and Spanish to be quite easy and reading medical documentation comes fairly intuitively. For those of European descent (at least a large chunk of what we call Europe today), Latin is an incredibly important part of our culture and history and helps link us with an incredibly rich past. I would say for pleasure and knowledge, study any language that saw such developments in medical practice, art and naval/military sciences. I'd assume that Sino-Tibetan language groups have a similarly rich history and learning one of those languages would be of equal benefit.

Re: Harvard Admission Exam (1869) [pdf]

#30

Post by plorkyeran »

ghaff wrote: post #26
arnsholt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin is not magical. While your idea is old enough to be mostly quaint and charming, the fact of the matter is that it's completely unrealistic. Not only that; it's already been tried, although using Sanskrit, not Latin. You've basically rediscovered a bad idea from the 80ies

I suspect that a lot of the "Latin helps you with English" meme comes from the coming together of a couple of things: 1. Some schools wanting to teach Latin at least in part simply because it was part of a classical Western curriculum but 2. Wanting to justify that inclusion based on more modern practical concerns than it just being something properly educated people learn. Nothing against Latin or classical Western…

Personally Latin helped me with English mostly because my Latin classes were the only place I ever got any formal instruction in English grammar.
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