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I Owe It All to Community College

nytimes.com

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Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#271

Post by bane »

dllthomas wrote: post #252
morgante wrote: post #251

This is pretty far from being a ringing endorsement of community colleges. If anything, it just reaffirms the complete lack of academic rigor they provide. - He aced an English class by doing "nothing more than embellish the definition I had looked up in the dictionary." - His recollection of public speaking class was a gorgeous flight attendant. - He never ended up graduating with a bachelor's degree and pursued a c…

I had a very good experience at community college, and it cost me $11/unit. When I transferred to a four-year school, the matriculation advisors told me I was probably better prepared for having done my lower division math at the community college. The real kicker is that students filling out a FAFSA form are asking for substantially more money.

I agree, I had an excellent CC experience. I've written about it on HN several times. My mathematics courses in particular were better run, by professors far more passionate about their subject and teaching it, than any of the higher maths I took when I transferred to a university.

Of my college experiences, including my M.S. program, most of the professors I look back on as having really provided me with a quality education were from my CC years (though the best professor I ever had in any subject was at my uni).

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#272

Post by king_jester »

morgante wrote: post #251

This is pretty far from being a ringing endorsement of community colleges. If anything, it just reaffirms the complete lack of academic rigor they provide. - He aced an English class by doing "nothing more than embellish the definition I had looked up in the dictionary." - His recollection of public speaking class was a gorgeous flight attendant. - He never ended up graduating with a bachelor's degree and pursued a c…

I love this post for how wrong it is:

* Acting like regular college students don't have classes that are super simple to game and pass

* Saying life moments like dating/flirting aren't important (what exactly are students supposed to do between classes anyway!?!)

* Saying being an actor does not require intellectual or academic ability (hint: it does)

* Has no idea what FAFSA is like or what it's like to navigate that mess

* Pretending that they aren't already indirectly paying for people to "get easy As, ogle girls, and pursue unintellectual careers"

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#273

Post by Mvandenbergh »

caseydurfee wrote: post #73
danielweber wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we just buy everything that is cheaper than the Iraq war, we will very soon be bankrupt.

This is an initiative that will lead to higher earning potential for Americans, leading to higher tax revenues over the long term. Will it pay for itself? Probably not, but it's juvenile to act like all government spending is equal when it comes to the country's long term financial health.

Whether it makes a net difference to earnings on a large scale depends on the degree to which this education will be a positional good vs leading to actual productivity gains.

The positional element just shifts money around, devaluing high school diplomas.

Only the productivity improvement element will increase net earnings.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#274

Post by rofl1234 »

cbd1984 wrote: post #236
vacri wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'colo[u]r' is merely a spelling difference. 'irregardless' is a double-negative to some people, and not to others. It's an ambiguous word.

"Irregardless" isn't ambiguous, either. Everyone knows what it means. The debate is over whether it should be in the language, in a moral sense, which is different.

Everybody knows that it means not (not in regard).

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#275

Post by morgante »

king_jester wrote: post #272
morgante wrote: post #251

This is pretty far from being a ringing endorsement of community colleges. If anything, it just reaffirms the complete lack of academic rigor they provide. - He aced an English class by doing "nothing more than embellish the definition I had looked up in the dictionary." - His recollection of public speaking class was a gorgeous flight attendant. - He never ended up graduating with a bachelor's degree and pursued a c…

I love this post for how wrong it is: * Acting like regular college students don't have classes that are super simple to game and pass * Saying life moments like dating/flirting aren't important (what exactly are students supposed to do between classes anyway!?!) * Saying being an actor does not require intellectual or academic ability (hint: it does) * Has no idea what FAFSA is like or what it's like to navigate tha…

I love your comment for how misguided it is.

> Acting like regular college students don't have classes that are super simple to game and pass

Oh, I know they exist. I just wouldn't write about them in the admissions brochure or an op-ed touting their supposed value.

> Saying life moments like dating/flirting aren't important (what exactly are students supposed to do between classes anyway!?!)

I suppose some people consider them important (I don't), but that doesn't mean the taxpayer should be footing the bill.

> Saying being an actor does not require intellectual or academic ability (hint: it does)

Maybe for better actors it requires some intellectual ability, but I'm unconvinced that most of Hanks's community college classes had any impact on his career.

> Has no idea what FAFSA is like or what it's like to navigate that mess

I'm in college right now, on financial aid. I'm well aware of the complexities of the FAFSA and probably filed one much more recently than you. But it's nowhere near challenging enough that a bright, motivated student would find it a hindrance.

> Pretending that they aren't already indirectly paying for people to "get easy As, ogle girls, and pursue unintellectual careers"

Oh, I know we are. I'd just prefer to not pay for more of it.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#276

Post by ehrman »

markdown wrote: post #97
zachberger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was frequently pushed and challenged by excellent professors who had true passion for their subjects I'm paying $47,336 to go to a private institution and wish this was true. Internal politics and tenure have ensured friends of department chairs have gotten the jobs irregardless of teaching ability, skill, research, knowledge in the subject area..

OT: > irregardless regardless is fine.

Blame his professors.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#277

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

danielweber wrote: post #153
smeyer wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't see your point about people who "just barely cannot get in". Most community college students did not need to do anything to get in. For the public community colleges in California, if I recall correctly, you just need to be 18 (or have a high school diploma or meet some other conditions.) Why do you think that funding community college would result in more students like the bottom 10% of those currently…

> As Reihan Salam of National Review notes, community college tuition is already low. In fact, it’s zero, on average, for lower-income families, after taking financial aid into account. Vox’s Libby Nelson wrote, “Community college tuition for poorer students is often entirely covered by the need-based Pell Grant.” So making it free takes care of people who couldn't handle the paperwork of filing for a Pell Grant. [1]…

>In fact, it’s zero, on average, for lower-income families, after taking financial aid into account. Vox’s Libby Nelson wrote, “Community college tuition for poorer students is often entirely covered by the need-based Pell Grant.”

It may be true that tuition is free for some, but to say it is often or on average probably depends upon a strange definition of the word. Anyway, the students' expense is not zero, there are never enough Pell grants to go around. Tuition is not the only cost. etc.

>So making it free takes care of people who couldn't handle the paperwork of filing for a Pell Grant.

My own experience in the '90s was that the time I spent filling out forms and travelling to offices and standing in lines would have been better spent at a minimum wage job.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#278

Post by stolio »

ctdonath wrote: post #211
beeworker wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but most of the US debt is denominated in US currency... It's a convenient loophole to use if it ever becomes a more serious problem.

Problem there is: there's only $4T in actual currency, but $18T in federal debt.

It's not like we'd have to print more gold.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#279

Post by king_jester »

morgante wrote: post #275
king_jester wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this post for how wrong it is: * Acting like regular college students don't have classes that are super simple to game and pass * Saying life moments like dating/flirting aren't important (what exactly are students supposed to do between classes anyway!?!) * Saying being an actor does not require intellectual or academic ability (hint: it does) * Has no idea what FAFSA is like or what it's like to navigate tha…

I love your comment for how misguided it is. > Acting like regular college students don't have classes that are super simple to game and pass Oh, I know they exist. I just wouldn't write about them in the admissions brochure or an op-ed touting their supposed value. > Saying life moments like dating/flirting aren't important (what exactly are students supposed to do between classes anyway!?!) I suppose some people co…

The point I'm making is that we expect people to continue living their lives while going to school, that doesn't change. Getting financial aid isn't a contract to live a strict monastic life nor should it be. Also, the fact that not every single person who gets aid goes on to use it for some optimal standard doesn't mean that it is a waste or that we as a society shouldn't do it.

> I'm in college right now, on financial aid. I'm well aware of the complexities of the FAFSA and probably filed one much more recently than you. But it's nowhere near challenging enough that a bright, motivated student would find it a hindrance.

It wasn't very long ago when I did FAFSA and I knew quite a few bright people who struggled with the process. FAFSA is not a perfect process and leaves a lot to be desired as I'm sure you are aware of.

> Maybe for better actors it requires some intellectual ability, but I'm unconvinced that most of Hanks's community college classes had any impact on his career.

This is an arbitrary thing to say, as clearly to Hanks some of the things he's recalling were significant to his life and his career. We don't get to make decisions for what is important to someone's development, that is up to individual people. There were many experiences that I've had that make me how am I today as a person and professional and I'm sure some folks may want to write that off.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#280

Post by mtVessel »

teh_klev wrote: post #264
mtVessel wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biweekly means every two weeks. Semiweekly means twice a week. (Fortnightly doesn't mean anything outside of the Commonwealth.) Please keep (politely) correcting people. It's only us against the hordes!

In the spirit the correctness and accuracy, which Commonwealth? :)

Point taken. Um...the one(s) where a 'fortnight' is still a thing?
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