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I Owe It All to Community College

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Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biweekly means every two weeks. Semiweekly means twice a week. (Fortnightly doesn't mean anything outside of the Commonwealth.) Please keep (politely) correcting people. It's only us against the hordes!

OTOH, were it not for bad Latin speakers, we wouldn't have the Romance languages. A John Simon/William Safire of the era is an important source of data on their development--he wrote a list of proper Latin terms and the corresponding words in the bad Latin he was seeing and/or hearing. Dang it, it's not caballus, it's equus!

So you're saying that when I correct someone publicly, I'm not being an insufferable pedant, I'm contemporaneously documenting usage for future linguists!

Ooh, I'm gonna get so much mileage out of that one.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#222
I'm probably late to this party where everyone seems to be hating on the President's plan, but I'll chime in since this plan would have had a huge affect on me.

I'm one of those people who didn't apply themselves in highschool and didn't have anyone push me to do well. I couldn't afford to go to uni because my parents made just enough so that I couldn't get any aid. They also didn't have money to spare and were smart enough not to cosign loans for me to go to a university. Who can blame them? Its crazy to spend 10s of thousands of dollars to take intro classes that are basically just substitutes for how terrible our k-12 system is. My parents did encourage me to go to college though, so I went to one nearby right after highschool.

I would like to point out that even though its cheap, if you aren't in district its quite a bit more expensive. I think it ended up being around $100 a credit hour where I went since I wasn't in district. I know that is peanuts compared to universities, but if you have to pay out of packet, it adds up really quick, especially with books etc.

I was lucky that my parents let me use their car and live at home for free. Because of this, I could pay for the classes outright by working 30 or so hours a week at minimum wage. Its really depressing to work for months and all summer, saving virtually all of the money you make, and then blow at the start of each semester.

Ultimately this worked out well for me though, because by getting high grades and most of an associates degree, I was able to get significant transfer scholarships and not have to take a bunch of pointless intro classes. I'm not saying that all liberal arts classes are pointless, but some of them are, and it feels like hell to have to pay for those classes out of pocket, especially when you make minimum wage (which was $7.40 at the time). I would rather just read a book on a subject than take a class in something that I only have passing interest in.

I still have some debt from university due to double majoring and adding another year (which is when my scholarships ran out), but I still got out with I will say that I meant quite a few people abusing the Pell grants though. People who lived at home for free and had no ambition would get Pell grants which covered their classes and gave them an overage for living expenses. They would just take the easiest classes and pocket the overage check. It was like a job for them. So I'm sure there will be people trying to do the same here, and there will be sleazy schools trying to get a chunk of the money too, but those are just problems that need to be solved.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#223
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put that into further perspective, it costs us about $20000/year for day care for our baby. This is near Boston.

So you have to make close to $30k before taxes to pay for day care? Is this normal for daycare? If one parent in a situation like this is making around the median individual income of ~$40k a year, it probably makes more sense financially to not work until the kid is school age. Obviously it's not that simple because of potential lost future earnings resulting from delayed career advancement, but I wonder if people r…

Different country similar issue. Yes people do the math, once the baby is there.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#224
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over all my other problems with anarcho-capitalism and minarchism, the biggest is how much more time I'd waste and how much more anxiety I'd have. Just thinking about all the new stuff I'd have to keep up with to avoid getting screwed gives me a headache. Food safety guarantors, some sort of court and law associations, drug safety certifiers, all kinds of insurance I don't have to worry about now, and so on. Having t…

> I don't see the appeal. Disenfranchisement, as per most modes of radicality. I have observed as a near-universality among ancap types that they have identified at formative times of their lives as being "othered." They're not the in-crowd and they're not fundamentally of it. My suspicion is that they have a secret (or unsecret) opinion of themselves as misunderstood ubermenschen. (I recall that phase of my life, bu…

Some of us just think that we, as a society, can do better than enforcing our beliefs and demands at the end of a gun barrel. And we prioritize principle over outcome, acknowledging that every system has it's pathological edge cases - including the current system.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College requires time and money, yes. The FAFSA is supposed to provide them for people who don't have them already. So saying 'if you don't have time and money you shouldn't go to college anyway' is kind of missing the point.

There seems to be a communication failure here, because you accuse me of saying things I'm not saying. They might be things you wish I were saying, but I'm not. I'm working off these two premises: 1. The FAFSA is free to fill out, but it takes time and attention, which you say some people do not have. 2. Even if we make community college completely free , it will still take time and attention. So, if the FAFSA is a s…

There is definitely a communication failure here. Are you asking why filling in the FAFSA might solve someone's problems around lack of money, or are you disagreeing that lack of money is a contributing factor to the lack of time and attention they prospective students have?

In case it's the first: the FAFSA, once filled out, makes these students eligible to receive money in the form of student loans and grants, which can cover living expenses as well as tuition. And to address the second: having money means you don't have to work, or can work fewer hours, and in general reduces the cognitive load of 'how do I afford to live', freeing up time and attention that the student can now put towards their studies.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a post-colonial country where English is the official language but 90% of the population have another language as their mother-tongue. There is therefore a lot of "broken" english spoken, and I guess I'm just used to correcting people (and being corrected myself). Irregardless is one of those words that is becoming OK to say just because so many people use it. Language adapts and therefore English is descri…

Biweekly means every two weeks. Semiweekly means twice a week. (Fortnightly doesn't mean anything outside of the Commonwealth.) Please keep (politely) correcting people. It's only us against the hordes!

> Biweekly means every two weeks.

Since when, exactly? http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/18553?rskey=7qC25f&result=2#ei...

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#227
My experience at Glendale Community College was that there was a real bimodal distribution of student, with one peak around very serious, hard working students trying to better their position and another around a group of students that were just going through the motions. GCC and most CCs are already pretty cheap. By removing the already low cost, I fear that proportion of less serious students would skyrocket. (As a service approaches zero cost, the percent of user that abuse that service reaches it's maximum.)

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see the appeal. Disenfranchisement, as per most modes of radicality. I have observed as a near-universality among ancap types that they have identified at formative times of their lives as being "othered." They're not the in-crowd and they're not fundamentally of it. My suspicion is that they have a secret (or unsecret) opinion of themselves as misunderstood ubermenschen. (I recall that phase of my life, bu…

Some of us just think that we, as a society, can do better than enforcing our beliefs and demands at the end of a gun barrel. And we prioritize principle over outcome, acknowledging that every system has it's pathological edge cases - including the current system.

[deleted]

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#229

My experience at Glendale Community College was that there was a real bimodal distribution of student, with one peak around very serious, hard working students trying to better their position and another around a group of students that were just going through the motions. GCC and most CCs are already pretty cheap. By removing the already low cost, I fear that proportion of less serious students would skyrocket. (As a…

Do you feel like the less serious mode of students are a net drag on the other mode? On the one hand, sure it might diminish the atmosphere or something. One the other hand, their tuition and fees support stuff that they're probably not using as much.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an initiative that will lead to higher earning potential for Americans, leading to higher tax revenues over the long term. Will it pay for itself? Probably not, but it's juvenile to act like all government spending is equal when it comes to the country's long term financial health.

Yes, potential. It will also further devalue high school diplomas as well as make good high schools less of a priority across the nation (everyone is going to CC anyway, right?). It probably makes bachelor's degrees even more of a requirement for decent jobs, making people more likely to take on student loans and spend their 20 and 30s paying them back for a piece of paper, restricting their mobility and options. Thr…

> It will also further devalue high school diplomas as well as make good high schools less of a priority across the nation (everyone is going to CC anyway, right?).

...and therefore making higher education more accessible is a bad thing?

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