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Obama calls for municipal broadband

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151–160 of 289 posts

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#151
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, personally, would not celebrate that outcome. I believe in the power in markets and price signaling, ala Hayek, and there is nothing unsophisticated about that. We agree on more then you may be aware...the HI industry is a giant problem, and must be fundamentally altered for the market-based solutions I prefer to do their magic.

so if you really do read a lot of Austrian economics and really do have a sophisticated view of political economy then why did you label ACA as "socialist"? at best that's ignorant, and at worst it's an actively deceptive slander of both ACA and real socialism.

>i would actively celebrate a legitimate socialized health care system

Based on your other comment, it appears that neither of you know what socialism is.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#152
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can tell because of how stridently Comcast/Verizon/AT&T oppose it. How so? Whether its good or bad, ISPs would be against it. Most companies do not want competition. (regardless of what they say) >by allowing the option of municipal networks. I personally think its rather unfair to ask a for-profit company to compete against a tax funded service. >Really, he's calling for the FCC to prevent rent-seeking You can…

>>I personally think its rather unfair to ask a for-profit company to compete against a tax funded service. But much of the technology and infrastructure the ISPs use today was once built by tax-payer money.

A ton of scientific research is done via government grants. Should we have no for-profit companies there too? No, that would be absurd.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#153
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will the federal policy be on encrypted traffic? Only two possibilities: ban it -- untenable -- or allow it.

They're not the only possibilities - for example they can refuse it but not police it, they can refuse it and police it, they can allow it but discourage it somehow (eg rate-limiting), I'm sure there are more if someone cared to thing about them for a minute. Not sure what you're trying to say here?

Or only police a few very harshly times to make examples. (And inconvenient people will have a higher chance of getting selected.)

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#156
post #101

I live in Provo, which has Google Fiber. As the article says, Google took over their failed public fiber project. (Google purchased the infrastructure for $1.) Provo is a very unique city. It's a big city, but most of its residents are college students or young, newly married recent graduates. It's also a technology hotspot. Comparing the success of its fiber project to predict the success in other cities is hardly f…

So with Provo having so many young people and being a technology hotspot, why do you think the public fiber project failed? (In general I'm in favor of municipal broadband, so I'm curious why it didn't work as well as hoped in this case.)

I actually don't know, since I wasn't here during the "iProvo" days. One guess is that so much of the housing are rental units. Since residents don't own the properties they live in, the landlords have to approve the installation of a fiber link, but that costs money (even if it's cheap), and they can justify not spending it since there's an existing DSL or cable connection.

Google Fiber faces the same problem, and this, I suspect, is precisely why my building's management company decided to forgo Google Fiber for DSL. Yuck. Fortunately, Google Fiber generated enough hype and made the installation fee so low that it appealed to lots of landlords.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#157
post #128
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Municipal broadband is a great idea. A town near me, Olds, just rolled out gigabit fiber to the curb for $57/mo. I do wonder if Olds is just covering their costs (likely) or are turning a profit (unlikely) (most municipal initiatives I've seen aimed to provide bandwidth at cost)? The infrastructure is new and shiny now, and works well, but in 15 years what will it look like? Most state highways systems are in atroc…

The cost of maintaining a fixed number of lanes of asphalt roadway is fairly constant over time. Impacted by the cost or labor and the price of oil, etc. The cost of maintaining a fixed amount of network bandwidth however, doesn't that decrease more-or-less with Moore's law? Especially if the lines are fiber, the cable can break and need to be replaced, but it never needs to be "upgraded" and the devices at either en…

> And to your point, if you the muni is responsible for little more than the fiber line itself, it really is a simple matter to maintain them, i.e. completely predictable cost structure.

That's what I was talking about. However, if the muni is responsible for the entire network, ie. routing, dc's, backup generators, upstream bandwidth, CPE devices (home termination routers/wifi access points), etc... those are all costs that might increase and/or be unpredictable, and at the very least will require some sort of re-investment from time-to-time to keep the network "current" in regards to technology used.

For example, how many years will the muni get out of the core routers they buy today? It will depend on the quality/upgradability of them when purchased, network demand/load, number of subscribers, future requirements for traffic shaping, etc. Same goes with their switches, load balancers, and other network equipment.

The actual lines themselves are unlikely to ever "break" unless someone puts a backhoe through them on a construction site, etc. So they are a relatively fixed-cost. Every home in a city could be "fiber-ready", and once you move in you get a choice of local ISP to use. There would be many local ISP's to choose from, and due to competition among themselves, service quality would increase.

Leaving everything to the muni also opens a door for vendors to oversell high margin equipment to the muni, effectively making the local tax-payer and/or subscriber foot the bill with little choice. Allowing small/local ISP's to compete for the "last mile" can reduce that cost burden based on what that particular business chooses to run equipment-wise (and to be competitive, they will strive to do the most with what they have instead of opting for the most expensive offering from the vendor, etc).

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#158
post #150
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can tell because of how stridently Comcast/Verizon/AT&T oppose it. How so? Whether its good or bad, ISPs would be against it. Most companies do not want competition. (regardless of what they say) >by allowing the option of municipal networks. I personally think its rather unfair to ask a for-profit company to compete against a tax funded service. >Really, he's calling for the FCC to prevent rent-seeking You can…

I don't think it's unfair at all to ask a multi-billion dollar company that doesn't compete with anyone to compete with someone . Comcast alone reported a $1,900,000,000 PROFIT in the first 3 months of 2014. To paraphrase Sam Waterston: "What can you buy for $2 billion that you can't still buy for $1.2 billion?"

It's amusing and ironic that your username ends with 'novak' given to whom Waterston was speaking!

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Municipal governments are a big part of the problem. They make it nearly impossible for companies to build new ISPs. And whose fault is that? Yep, that's right, the ISPs. The ISPs love to play this game of "shut the door after I've gone through it". They get the municipal governments to sign exclusivity clauses and various other laws to keep competition out. I mean, think about it: nothing gets done in the governme…

>They get the municipal governments to sign exclusivity clauses and various other laws to keep competition out. These contracts are signed under duress, then? Your representatives are free to not sign the contract.

As someone pointed out, these contracts have been illegal for 20+ years.

Truthfully, as the great-grandparent said, the muni's did this, and now you want them to build broadband networks?

This will require more regulation of those networks when the muni's decide to sell your info to put ads on the connections (or whatever) due to lowering tax revenue, or whatever.

Seriously. I love the idea of muni broadband, and there are plenty of municipalities where I think it would go well due to the structure/tenor of those local governments, but i would be vastly afraid of what would happen elsewhere :(

After all, most of these government have had no trouble placing things like red light cameras and causing more rear-end accidents for revenue, and take your pick of any 5 harebrained schemes to save the children.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#160
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's unfair at all to ask a multi-billion dollar company that doesn't compete with anyone to compete with someone . Comcast alone reported a $1,900,000,000 PROFIT in the first 3 months of 2014. To paraphrase Sam Waterston: "What can you buy for $2 billion that you can't still buy for $1.2 billion?"

It's amusing and ironic that your username ends with 'novak' given to whom Waterston was speaking!

edit: Yeah, it's always kind of depressing when the family name is shared with the antagonist of the story
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