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A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

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Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#31

Post by akira2501 »

t413 wrote: post #20
akira2501 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really the vehicles. It's the loading docks, the fueling stations, the truck scales and all the rest of the infrastructure that supports trucking. All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well, not to mention, when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair. Mining operations…

you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop True, but that's skill most drivers don't have. Add in-wheel pressure and temperature sensors-- plus scheduled maintenance checkups and that problem mostly goes away. There are also numerous examples of adaptive control systems landing aircraft after major failures (quadcopters with 3 props, planes with 1 wing) that humans can't handle. You bring up good di…

> True, but that's skill most drivers don't have. [...] after major failures (quadcopters with 3 props, planes with 1 wing) that humans can't handle.

These are decent examples, but don't most of them only account for the safeyy of the controlled vehicle itself? I mean, it's impressive that a quad copter can land itself after a partial failure, but can it do it over a crowded city? With a hazardous load? Can the control software understand NFPA 704 of it's own cargo, plus the cargo of other vehicles near it and make appropriate decisions? All of this possibly near the maximum weight ratings for it's transportation type?

I'm _all_ for automation, and I think it's the next most logical direction of our society; however, I think people tend to underestimate the totality of challenges involved especially for cargo transport.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#32

Post by Retric »

akira2501 wrote: post #9
acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

It's not really the vehicles. It's the loading docks, the fueling stations, the truck scales and all the rest of the infrastructure that supports trucking. All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well, not to mention, when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair. Mining operations…

One huge advantage of a self driving truck is it can easily wait 4+ hours for a tow truck to arrive for minor repairs at little cost. Or be swapped out for another rig and hauled off for more major repairs.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#33

Post by Groxx »

eutropia wrote: post #25

Saw his code had a bunch of sleep() statements in it -- I wonder why that is?

they appear to always be on gpio 23 and 24, which a comment implies is for making beeping sounds (I'm guesing two-tone?). I'm guessing it's just to play beep sequences after it has done X or Y.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#34

Post by pjc50 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #26
B0Z wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question. Don't you think this kind of AI is precisely the AI that Gates, Musk, and Hawking are warning against?

No, they're warning us about an AI which could outsmart or outperform us, and lead to our demise as it pursues the goals we've encoded into it without realizing they lead to a result we don't want.

pursues the goals we've encoded into it without realizing they lead to a result we don't want.

Sounds like capitalism vs. the environment there.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#35

Post by rogerbinns »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #30
plaguuuuuu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the same, I have a large amount of trust in my own driving. I trust my driving more than my own programming. And I sure as hell trust my code more than some sketchy offshore team's. It's only a matter of time before the first car segfaults. Plus it's a huge security risk. Cars are internet-connected these days.

Well, for one you can be pretty sure that self-driving car software isn't going to be written by hippie webdevs changing frameworks every other week. Companies and programmers that tend to work on this kind of software have pretty good track records - we don't see planes falling out of the sky or medical machines randomly killing patients all the time. Uou're going to have an app store for your car drivers.

Cars have it simpler than planes etc too. In particular they can always fail safe by stopping - something that isn't applicable to planes. Other complexities aren't present either due to the 2d nature of roads - for example car software doesn't have to worry about stalls, coffin corner or similar.

I believe that self driving cars will primarily be owned by companies with fleets of them, rather than individual ownership we have today. It doesn't make sense to have them sitting idle 23 hours a day. The owner companies will have a very strong incentive for safety since even rumours would be bad for business. They will also be in a better position to do something about it due to having multiple vehicles.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#37

Post by throwawaymsft »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10
acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

> Software is only is good as the guy programming it.

I guess chess computers can never beat a human then. Because the software is only as good as the guy writing it.

> What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph?

What happens when a human is inexperienced/texting/drunk/sleepy? Humans have plenty of "bugs" but you don't notice them.

> For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

Trials. Testing. Every accident (which is inevitable) will be scrutinized and used to improve the system (unlike the 40k annual deaths in the US where that unfortunate experience helps nobody, except perhaps installing a traffic light or barrier).

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#38

Post by wanderingstan »

throwawaymsft wrote: post #37
at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

> Software is only is good as the guy programming it. I guess chess computers can never beat a human then. Because the software is only as good as the guy writing it. > What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? What happens when a human is inexperienced/texting/drunk/sleepy? Humans have plenty of "bugs" but you don't notice them. > F…

Back when I wrote video games, I often had to explain to people that was a terrible player of these games. Many people have a default implicit assumption that you can't make something that you are not a master of. Similarly, it's hard to appreciate how software can encode the accumulated "smarts" of literally thousands of contributors, all running at inhumanly fast speed.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#39

Post by Scoundreller »

akira2501 wrote: post #9
acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

It's not really the vehicles. It's the loading docks, the fueling stations, the truck scales and all the rest of the infrastructure that supports trucking. All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well, not to mention, when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair. Mining operations…

> All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well

Do they?

The trucks don't need to automate 100% of tasks for initial implementation, the first ones will be driverless in-between cities (or driver-nap in-between cities) with manned fueling, loading docks, scales, etc.

This will require some changes, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue to move toward full-serve gasoline service in the interim.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#40

Post by vubuntu »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10
acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

This applies to everything. Why just software?

I could say the same about mechanical or electronics of a vehicle

"I've always been leery of vehicles. They run on mechanical parts. Mechanical parts are only as good as the mechanical engineer that designed them and the quality of material. What if a newly introduced part was not well tested and developed a stress failure due to design or material deficiency. Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? How do we account for the issue of buggy mechanical parts or electronics "

See how that works? Everything other than your own two legs is man made. It's just the level of maturity of the process and testing and time that eventually gives you enough confidence to start trusting any human made device, whether it is software, mechanical, electric, electronic etc...

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