A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#11

Post by Systemic33 » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

We are still a long way from vehicles without human occupants. The most modern lorries by Mercedes-Benz are very autonoumous, but still need a driver to be with the lorry.

Since lorries rarely just go from marked up parking spot to parking spot, but at their destinations probably have to navigate unconventional layouts, etc, they will for the forseeable future include drivers.

But what I expect to see happen, is that the logistics will become more decentralized, since the driver can now spend more time on administration, and less on driving, essentially taking over the job of the company command central.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#12

Post by Evolved » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

As the largest factor in accidents other than DUI is inattentiveness[1](tired or texting) then self-driving cars with limited ability for drivers to perform actions that could cause an accident or effect efficiency would be a huge boon.

Imagine saying, "sorry my car cut off your car!" with sincerity and a little tongue-in-cheek humor as well.

Then there's also the efficiency factor as far as maximizing capacity in lanes and maintaining speed to streamline commuting. Merging could be vastly improved if cars were able to zipper merge better.

[1] http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/humanfa...

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#13

Post by Evolved » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

At least the bug is able to be diagnosed and traced along where it started from all the way until the accident where it caused a problem.

Try diagnosing someone suddenly getting pissed off and cutting off another driver which sets off a chain reaction of the events leading up to a multi-vehicle collision. The driver may attempt to cover-up, deny or lie about what happened to protect themselves whereas the software would not have such self-preservation and would report things as they occurred without being concerned with assigning blame or establishing guilt.

Software is not going to turn its head and rubberneck at an accident and in turn, rear end the car in front of it.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#14

Post by Evolved » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

This guy is fantastic for being so proactive in his approach while being careful to (what appears to) run the system in such a way that it does not interfere with the way the truck operates. Not to mention the saved seconds or minutes which add up after a while.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#15

Post by rogerbinns » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

You mean you'd prefer humans to do the driving? Youtube is full of human examples - start here as an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL7S--E5oQ - and note that it ranges from minor fender benders through some very serious injuries and destruction.

There are lots of examples of not being able to stay in lane, pulling out, not seeing stopped traffic, not paying attention to surroundings. Humans can't even get the trivial simple things right in broad daylight.

(Yes I am aware that you are in the 97% of drivers who are absolutely convinced they are above average. That doesn't make it true. Yes the video mainly has clips from Russia - you can find USA based ones too. And a 9/11 happens on US roads each and every month. People are dying in large numbers because of human drivers.)

Edit: added warning about video content

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#16

Post by jaryd » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:14 PM UTC

rogerbinns wrote: post #15

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

You mean you'd prefer humans to do the driving? Youtube is full of human examples - start here as an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL7S--E5oQ - and note that it ranges from minor fender benders through some very serious injuries and destruction. There are lots of examples of not being able to stay in lane, pulling out, not seeing stopped traffic, not paying attention to surroundings. Humans can't even get…

You might want to put a warning before or after that link to indicate that it contains some pretty disturbing content...

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#17

Post by radicalbyte » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:14 PM UTC

Evolved wrote: post #12

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

As the largest factor in accidents other than DUI is inattentiveness[1](tired or texting) then self-driving cars with limited ability for drivers to perform actions that could cause an accident or effect efficiency would be a huge boon. Imagine saying, "sorry my car cut off your car!" with sincerity and a little tongue-in-cheek humor as well. Then there's also the efficiency factor as far as maximizing capacity in la…

These self-driving vehicles will most likely have a lower base risk for accidents - they don't get tired, they don't get distracted.

However their potential for a Black Swan event is enormous. They could run perfectly for 5 years then an unexpected bug could cause 50% of vehicles to spontaneously accelerate to max speed and then pull a hard right..

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#18

Post by jameskilton » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:17 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

Cars currently run on millions of lines of software. Airlines run on even more. Medical equipment is heavily run by software.

Software already runs our lives, and worrying about the quality of the underlying software is a strawman. When was the last time a code bug took out a car or an airliner? Some industries have very stringent requirements and QA processes to make sure the code is bug free and can't kill people.

Also, Google's self-driving car is already a far better driver than a majority of the drivers on the road today http://theoatmeal.com/blog/google_self_driving_car

Personally I can't wait until the human aspect of driving is completely removed from day-to-day travel.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#19

Post by plaguuuuuu » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:30 PM UTC

rogerbinns wrote: post #15

at-fates-hands wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it. What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

You mean you'd prefer humans to do the driving? Youtube is full of human examples - start here as an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL7S--E5oQ - and note that it ranges from minor fender benders through some very serious injuries and destruction. There are lots of examples of not being able to stay in lane, pulling out, not seeing stopped traffic, not paying attention to surroundings. Humans can't even get…

All the same, I have a large amount of trust in my own driving. I trust my driving more than my own programming. And I sure as hell trust my code more than some sketchy offshore team's. It's only a matter of time before the first car segfaults.

Plus it's a huge security risk. Cars are internet-connected these days.

Re: A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

#20

Post by t413 » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #9

acadien wrote: post #6

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the numb…

It's not really the vehicles. It's the loading docks, the fueling stations, the truck scales and all the rest of the infrastructure that supports trucking. All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well, not to mention, when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair. Mining operations…

   you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop

True, but that's skill most drivers don't have. Add in-wheel pressure and temperature sensors-- plus scheduled maintenance checkups and that problem mostly goes away. There are also numerous examples of adaptive control systems landing aircraft after major failures (quadcopters with 3 props, planes with 1 wing) that humans can't handle.

You bring up good difficulties. Still-- most of those problems have solutions and I sure hope it's sooner than 50 years from now we see self-driving long-haul trucks on the road.