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Obama calls for municipal broadband

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Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#51

Post by jfb »

rev_bird wrote: post #33
jfb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? The Feds here are not in the business of bandwidth provision; they're acting to counterbalance the elephantine mass of Comcast by preventing them from overpowering municipal politics.

I think the idea was that if Disney can get the government to essentially destroy the idea of 20th century work entering the public domain, they could probably get the government to act against an open internet.

They can do this now. Municipal ownership of some of the pipes isn't going to stop what is essentially an orthogonal fight from happening at a higher level.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#52

Post by ceejayoz »

cubano wrote: post #40
metaphorm wrote: post #13

I wish we had seen this more progressive, pro-active Obama 6 years ago. Squandered his political capital on a shitty health care reform bill, got shell shocked by Republican opposition and crawled up his own ass for a couple of years. Now that he doesn't give a shit about elections anymore he's actually doing something.

I wish we had seen this more progressive, pro-active Obama 6 years ago. More progressive and pro-active then basically socializing 1/7th of the US economy with the ACA? Wow. [edit] I used the wrong term "socializing" when I meant "intervening in"

> More progressive and pro-active then basically socializing 1/7th of the US economy with the ACA?

What's socialist about a fine for not purchasing insurance from private corporations?!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/...

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#53

Post by api »

NoPiece wrote: post #14
jfb wrote: post #6

Really, he's calling for the FCC to prevent rent-seeking by local ISP monopolies by allowing the option of municipal networks. It's a really good idea; you can tell because of how stridently Comcast/Verizon/AT&T oppose it.

What do you think the federal policy on torrents will be? Ask Disney.

What will the federal policy be on encrypted traffic?

Only two possibilities: ban it -- untenable -- or allow it.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#54

Post by metaphorm »

sp332 wrote: post #47
metaphorm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the united states is a federal republic. municipal government is SUPPOSED to be the level of government where programs like this are implemented. communities will have varying needs and their local governments are best equipped to evaluate and meet those needs.

Is there really that much variation in basic infrastructure like internet access though?

yes. some communities have 10000 people per square mile (Brooklyn, where I live) while other communities have 6 people per square mile (rural Wyoming), and we've also got everything in between.

the infrastructure requirements, costs, and issues for these communities are extremely different.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#55

Post by brandon272 »

ayuvar wrote: post #5

Municipal broadband is a great idea. A town near me, Olds, just rolled out gigabit fiber to the curb for $57/mo. Considering most of the other nearby municipalities have to live with dialup or (agonizingly slow) satellite internet, it's been a big draw to the area. I think it absolutely makes a ton of sense for rural areas; if I had a remote job it would be very tempting to head out there and get an acreage. I feel l…

It should be noted that you're not getting gigabit speed for $57 a month. According to their website, their service at 50mbps runs $90 a month. As is mentioned in the CBC article they arrive at the $57 a month figure if you bundle it with TV and phone service.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#56

Post by coryrc »

anigbrowl wrote: post #34
mtrpcic wrote: post #8

A lot of people seem dismayed that there isn't a bigger push for a federal run, country-wide internet provider, which I think is crazy. Taking the municipal approach means there isn't a huge cost for nationwide infrastructure, and small towns can develop the network that's right for them, rather than being stuck with what they're told they need from higher up. Additionally, with all the worry and fear about the NSA l…

small towns can develop the network that's right for them What does that even mean? Do people in Smallville use the internet differently or not like to their video to buffer too fast? A mishmash of half-assed local standards was how the road network used to be, until Dwight Eisenhower came to power and argued that the US deserved something better than the miserably inefficient network it had, and championed the devel…

> Are inferior networks right for poorer towns?

Yes. In rural areas, the cost per mile is much more important than in the city. If gigabit costs 10% more per mile than 100Mbit, is it worth it? Their burdens per person will be higher, in areas where the wage is typically lower. Perhaps 10Mbit wireless would be much cheaper per customer; maybe much more affordable for local residents (who have to pay through fees or taxes, one way or another).

Similar thing with septic versus sewer[0]. You won't have septic in larger towns, but sewer costs can be stifling.

[0] http://lancasteronline.com/news/health/small-iowa-towns-stru...

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#57

Post by kstrauser »

anigbrowl wrote: post #34
mtrpcic wrote: post #8

A lot of people seem dismayed that there isn't a bigger push for a federal run, country-wide internet provider, which I think is crazy. Taking the municipal approach means there isn't a huge cost for nationwide infrastructure, and small towns can develop the network that's right for them, rather than being stuck with what they're told they need from higher up. Additionally, with all the worry and fear about the NSA l…

small towns can develop the network that's right for them What does that even mean? Do people in Smallville use the internet differently or not like to their video to buffer too fast? A mishmash of half-assed local standards was how the road network used to be, until Dwight Eisenhower came to power and argued that the US deserved something better than the miserably inefficient network it had, and championed the devel…

A big difference between roads and network links is that I don't have to send packets through Mayberry on their way from SF to DC. Interstate highways were amazing because they specified a minimum level of quality that you could then expect everywhere, in every state, as you were transporting goods through them. While it would suck for Mayberry's residence if their digital "road" is two tin cans and a string, your data traffic doesn't have to be routed through it.

And yes, there should absolutely be different standards in different places. The most obvious relevant variable is population density: there are a lot fewer feet of fiber between residents in Manhattan than residents in rural Montana. Something that makes perfect economic sense in San Francisco's Financial District might be ruinously expensive to deploy in a small town in Oklahoma.

The Internet isn't a special snowflake here. No one builds skyscrapers in farming villages because it would be hideously costly and the local tax base couldn't support it. Same with gigabit fiber: 10,000 homes might be able to afford having better access brought in than could a hamlet of 50 people.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#58

Post by cubano »

metaphorm wrote: post #46
cubano wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had seen this more progressive, pro-active Obama 6 years ago. More progressive and pro-active then basically socializing 1/7th of the US economy with the ACA? Wow. [edit] I used the wrong term "socializing" when I meant "intervening in"

are you serious? you can't be serious. i usually assume that hacker news has a bit more sophistication than this. i would actively celebrate a legitimate socialized health care system in the U.S. but that's not what we got. ACA is basically a huge middle class tax with the proceeds paid almost entirely to health insurance companies. its a massive expansion of a deeply entrenched private industry.

I, personally, would not celebrate that outcome.

I believe in the power in markets and price signaling, ala Hayek, and there is nothing unsophisticated about that.

We agree on more then you may be aware...the HI industry is a giant problem, and must be fundamentally altered for the market-based solutions I prefer to do their magic.

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#59

Post by sp332 »

metaphorm wrote: post #54
sp332 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really that much variation in basic infrastructure like internet access though?

yes. some communities have 10000 people per square mile (Brooklyn, where I live) while other communities have 6 people per square mile (rural Wyoming), and we've also got everything in between. the infrastructure requirements, costs, and issues for these communities are extremely different.

Yes, but that's not that hard to account for. Private companies don't seem to have much trouble. My question isn't "would municipal government be better than private companies", but "would federal government be worse"?

Re: Obama calls for municipal broadband

#60

Post by smallerize »

hawkice wrote: post #43
NoPiece wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think the federal policy on torrents will be? Ask Disney.

The ability to encrypt torrent traffic (requiring encryption is tremendously easy to do through the guis I use, and might even be the default in many clients) combined with the American reflexive response to government censorship leads me to think this won't be as big an issue as you imply.

If you use a tracker, anyone on that tracker can get your IP address. Not to mention querying the DHT and busting everyone with a matching hash. I once downloaded a file with all the encryption buttons checked (Deluge interface) and some enforcement agency still sent a warning notice to my ISP with my IP address.
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