Live data from Hacker News

C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

terathon.com

81–88 of 88 posts

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#81
post #76
post #47

My 3 cents: Maybe a possible alternative would be to focus on one particular linux distribution, like ubuntu or debian, with certain dirty intall scripts ? Or go all the way and just deliver a bootable CD or USB drive that install the games somewhere, and then boots up a certain linux kernel configuration with specific, working nvidia or amd drivers. Honestly if I had a successful game I could sell, I'd try to sell i…

> So drop the support of high end 3D features You're really suggesting people in a field that is constantly pushing the boundaries of graphics to drop one of the things they do best? > do you really need that shader Yes! > I don't think any small developer who wants to release on linux can really compete with AAA You'd be surprised with what a small developer can do, See tomorrow children. Sadly sometimes it sometime…

> You're really suggesting people in a field that is constantly pushing the boundaries of graphics to drop one of the things they do best?

Better work in CGI graphics then. Also, what's the point of rendering ? You won't make a game if all you have is good rendering. You also need quality content. You can't be a good graphics programmers AND spend time producing geometry.

> Did you really just contradict yourself in the same sentence?

I just meant do improve designs that have been proven to work, not try to make the same kind of design you usually see in AAA shelves.

I see many indie games just being some remake, or influenced by many other games. They don't have any kind of standing out feature, the only interesting thing there is, is content, which is not what makes a good game. There is almost never a feature of the game that is standing out in term of gameplay and algorithm.

A good example is minecraft: the game is interesting because it has an infinite, consistent 3D level. No game had that before. All I care is gameplay and interactions. My point is this: if a game is not different in gameplay and can't attract the player imagination, it's maybe not worth doing.

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#82
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Eric Lengyel is a well-respected guy and programmer. If an OS takes him long (and by long I mean more than 10 minutes) to install and configure, that doesn't speak all-too-well for that OS.

OSX takes me about 40 minutes to install and I still speak pretty damn well about it.

39 of these 40 are waiting download/installation. Don't put my comment out of context :)

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Eric Lengyel is a well-respected guy and programmer. If an OS takes him long (and by long I mean more than 10 minutes) to install and configure, that doesn't speak all-too-well for that OS.

Have you seen his coding conventions? http://www.terathon.com/wiki/index.php/Coding_Conventions

I have now :) I disagree with almost everything, but that doesn't make him a bad programmer.

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#84
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Eric Lengyel is a well-respected guy and programmer. If an OS takes him long (and by long I mean more than 10 minutes) to install and configure, that doesn't speak all-too-well for that OS.

There are so many reports of normal people installing Ubuntu without problems that I'd rather guess he hit some obscure bug.

Admittedly it's not as bad as 5 years, and yes, Ubuntu is ridiculously easy to install if everything goes well. That being said, I think obscure bugs are one of FOSS's biggest enemies. For example, a small and easily-solvable bug with NVIDIA driver can scare off a lot of users.

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#85
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that there aren't any libraries.

No, you're just spreading FUD about Linux. There is no audio clusterfuck, just incompetent developers like those working on Skype that only support PulseAudio instead of using a library that would give them ALSA, JACK and OSS support.

Seriously, buddy, I gave you like a ton of ways to deescalate the douche in your response, but you went right through the wall.

C4 isn't the only case where developers are frustrated with Linux. And if Windows and OS X fare better in attracting developers (which these systems do), even though Linux is essentially free (and the competition isn't), that's per definition a sign of a shit product.

So, you can of course, think that all of this is FUD and everybody in the world is incompetent, while more and more people drop support for a system that's too much duct-taped together for its own good.

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#86
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a consumer point of view, everything above the Linux Kernel is a mess. A mess means actually choice where the consumer doesn't need one. I had hopes that Steam Machines may leverage Linux to consumers but trying to configure my father's Linux machine to his needs brought me back to reality. I even think that the consumer perspective is the one that hinders Linux. Want to develop something for Linux? What's the d…

> "From a consumer point of view, everything above the Linux Kernel is a mess." That's the sort of thing projects like systemd aim to fix. > "Want to develop something for Linux? What's the display server? Proprietary or free drivers? What Desktop Environment? QT or GTK Application?" You don't need to concern yourself with the display server if you're writing using a library like Qt or GTK+, but it's not a hard quest…

Looks like a cure that is worse than the illness from here...

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#87
post #78
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you gloss over the "needed libraries". But seriously, let's take a quick look (here)[ http://www.terathon.com/architecture.php ] and think, what might be a clear pain point in Linux, even if the "needed libraries" worked perfectly with all the hardware and all distros and the blobs were perfect. Did I hear someone say "Linux sound support"? Yes, that is a correct answer. Sound in Linux is a know clusterfuc…

Actually, in this case, glossing over the "needed libraries" is appropriate. Eric some serious NIH. Choosing to write his own video codec, for example.

I'm not sure I get your point. Although writing your own video codec seems a bit overkill.

The spec here isn't that trivial, I mean the thing has clearly strict performance and portability constraints across systems and compilers, not to mention maintainability and quality consistency across the releases. Finding libraries that fit well with those constraints, especially for a large project like this, isn't easy. So I can imagine scenarios where NIH would be justified.

I was mostly making a point, that using such broad strokes to claim someone to be incompetent, while assuming all the libraries and tools required are in perfect condition and perfectly work is dumb and Stefi's hissy-fit here is just self indulgent ego-stroking.

Re: C4 game engine drops Linux support citing frustrations with desktop Linux

#88
post #87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case, glossing over the "needed libraries" is appropriate. Eric some serious NIH. Choosing to write his own video codec, for example.

I'm not sure I get your point. Although writing your own video codec seems a bit overkill. The spec here isn't that trivial, I mean the thing has clearly strict performance and portability constraints across systems and compilers, not to mention maintainability and quality consistency across the releases. Finding libraries that fit well with those constraints, especially for a large project like this, isn't easy. So…

Yes, sorry. I should have better explained. In this case, C4 is capable of building with nearly zero libraries, afaik, only requiring OS libs, and OpenGL. In this case, I think we can expect the libraries to be in perfect working condition.
Post reply on HN