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Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

bitcoinity.org

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Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#251

Post by dagw »

Fuxy wrote: post #136
olalonde wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks can already transfer fund between themselves electronically and efficiently. And a bank account is exactly storing paper currency digitally. Sure, but it doesn't matter what benefits Bitcoin offers to banks (although I do think you are overlooking a few). If banks ever were to support BTC denominated accounts, it would be because of consumer demand, not because Bitcoin is more efficient for them to store/tran…

Unlike the baking systems "digital currency" which can be confiscated from its owner or it owner prevented from using it in certain situations (see Wikileaks) bitcoin give you complete control over your own hard earned money and the causes you choose to support. It may not be much of a currency at the moment since banks are attempting hard to prevent its use but the freedom it gives you outweighs the risk of it being…

Bitcoin would hurt Visa and Master Card very badly if it were adopted since it obsoletes their entire business practice.

If Bitcoin ever gets to a stage where it even looks like it has a chance to hurt Visa or Mastercards current business model then they will simply change their business model and use their massive current infrastructure and global network to become the biggest players in the new bitcoin market. I would be extremely surprised if Visa and Mastercard didn't have people wargaming these scenarios as we speak.

Now if there were any decently run services out there that could secure the average users wallets the market would pick up very fast.

A service provided by Visa or Mastercard perhaps...

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#252

Post by FatalLogic »

sanswork wrote: post #231
FatalLogic wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right to put "source" in quotes, because that's embarrassingly weak. You haven't even counted them. You're providing no real data. There's no way that it justifies your stark claim that "most people in the community have lost faith in Blockchain.info". Why do you feel the need to enhance your argument with exaggeration and unsupported assertions?

I didn't realize my statement would confuse someone into thinking it was the result of a scientifically accurate survey and not just an observation of sentiment. I apologize for the confusion.

Thanks, I appreciate the apology!

Almost 10% of the comments in this thread are by you, and they're filled with numerous bold claims of fact.

Are all those statements "observations of sentiment", too, or was it only this one?

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#253

Post by dingaling »

tribaal wrote: post #55
honeybooboo123 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own any bitcoins, but felt like pointing a couple of things out. Whatever shreds of interest your bank gives you will be way, way less than the inflation you're experiencing. In other words, your money's purchasing power keeps decreasing even if you're getting some interest on it, ie. you're losing your wealth. Bitcoin doesn't experience inflation like that, so it should be a better store of value than your f…

> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. If someone steals my bitcoins, it means they have a copy of my private key, and there is nothing I can do about it. Zich. Nada. Transaction fees pay for this insurance (among other things, but still).

> If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come.

Unfortunately this is no longer the case in Europe with cards activated under 'Verified by Visa' ( and presumably the Mastercard equivalent ).

If an VbV card is used and passes authentication then it is assumed that the cardholder authorised the transaction and they are liable.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#254

Post by gphil »

girvo wrote: post #214
jasonisalive wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you must have missed the part where you actually asserted that theft, the violation of private property, was net healthy for an economy. That's a) impossible b) arrogant and c) heartless. And I'm supposed to be the asshole...

I pass no judgement on whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, but: > That's a) impossible Well, that's prima facie not true. It can indeed be possible for theft and violation of private property to be a net good for the economy as a whole . Again, I stress, I have no idea about this case per se. It's an interesting thought experiment though, as to when the government taking something away from private citizens l…

Taxes would have been a better example.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#255

Post by [deleted] »

girvo wrote: post #214
jasonisalive wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you must have missed the part where you actually asserted that theft, the violation of private property, was net healthy for an economy. That's a) impossible b) arrogant and c) heartless. And I'm supposed to be the asshole...

I pass no judgement on whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, but: > That's a) impossible Well, that's prima facie not true. It can indeed be possible for theft and violation of private property to be a net good for the economy as a whole . Again, I stress, I have no idea about this case per se. It's an interesting thought experiment though, as to when the government taking something away from private citizens l…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#256

Post by [deleted] »

girvo wrote: post #214
jasonisalive wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you must have missed the part where you actually asserted that theft, the violation of private property, was net healthy for an economy. That's a) impossible b) arrogant and c) heartless. And I'm supposed to be the asshole...

I pass no judgement on whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, but: > That's a) impossible Well, that's prima facie not true. It can indeed be possible for theft and violation of private property to be a net good for the economy as a whole . Again, I stress, I have no idea about this case per se. It's an interesting thought experiment though, as to when the government taking something away from private citizens l…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#257

Post by tribaal »

moe wrote: post #230
tribaal wrote: post #10

Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…

Bitcoin is the electronic version of "let's buy a lot of gold and stash it somewhere". It's also the electronic version of: Be able to move that gold around the globe near instantly, without a middleman, at almost zero cost. And some other quite neat things. While these features may seem "anecdotical" for many people in the western world, there's also a large number of people in poorer countries for whom e.g. the fee…

I live in Tanzania :)

I think you're overestimating the impact of bitcoin on poor countries by several orders of magnitude. People who don't have access to a bank account now don't have a smartphone, and certainly not a computer either. And internet access is rare and expensive (most people have dumb phones, internet at home is a rarity, and most coffee places charge you for wifi).

On top of that the only way to buy bitcoin here (for now, at least) is to send money through western union to some guy on localbitcoins and of course, that's far from "almost zero cost" or "without a middleman".

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but the reality is that it's still much, much easier and cheaper to get a bank account than bitcoin here (you can open a bank account in less than an hour, with a minimal deposit of 50$. That allows you to use ATMs and send money anywhere).

So I come back to my original point, adoption is margnial, at best. Especially in poor countries.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#258

Post by adventured »

stretchwithme wrote: post #88

Are oil and bitcoin becoming less valuable? Or is the value of the measuring stick, the dollar, changing? If you measured how tall your kid is every day and he's 5'1" one day and 4'8" the next and 6'1" the day after that, there just might be a measurement problem. For whatever reason, the end of quantitative easing or whatever, the dollar is getting stronger.

The dollar began running right around July 1st (the effect of the Fed shutting down QE):

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX

Oil began falling at the same time:

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=CL

And bitcoin also began the current downturn about the same time. I'd be very reluctant to link the dollar's increase with any of the decrease in bitcoin, even though it's an interesting discussion point, with some money potentially flowing out of bitcoin and into dollars (since it's gaining value, and likely to gain more if the Fed proceeds to raise interest rates this year).

That said, gold on the other hand has not taken a beating since July 1st despite the dollar's significant move:

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#259

Post by moe »

sanswork wrote: post #241
moe wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not confusing it at all. I was giving an example that closely maps to the security concern with a credit card. So if you agree that Bitcoin is not a credit card then what relevance does an example have that maps to the security concerns of a credit card ?

I appreciate you skipping the whole rest of my comment to focus on the completely not relevant point of questioning why I included a specific example. If you want to ignore that is fine with me. But there is still a lot of my comment left up there.

I'm not sure how to make it much clearer, so I'll just quote your own words again:

I'm not confusing it [Bitcoin vs CC] at all. I was giving an example that closely maps to the security concern with a credit card.

First you say you agree that Bitcoin and Credit Cards are not the same - and then you proceed to complain about problems that only occur if you treat Bitcoin like a Credit Card.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#260

Post by sanswork »

FatalLogic wrote: post #252
sanswork wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize my statement would confuse someone into thinking it was the result of a scientifically accurate survey and not just an observation of sentiment. I apologize for the confusion.

Thanks, I appreciate the apology! Almost 10% of the comments in this thread are by you, and they're filled with numerous bold claims of fact. Are all those statements "observations of sentiment", too, or was it only this one?

>Are all those statements "observations of sentiment", too, or was it only this one?

If I use exact numbers they tend to be facts I can source you. If I use vague terms it is because I don't have the numbers or it is a sentiment claim.

I've had a look through my comments here and don't really see too many bold claims at all. Do you have any specific ones you want an answer for?

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