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Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

bitcoinity.org

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Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#211

Post by sanswork »

jasonisalive wrote: post #201
sanswork wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when bitcoin is the adopted world currency and the power goes out in your area for a few days?

Entrepreneurs smell an opportunity[1] to roll out one of the many, many new energy technologies that have developed in the meantime in your area (which somehow was overlooked until this point.) [1] An opportunity made possible by the ability (created by Bitcoin) to profitably and efficiently collect micropayments in poor regions of the world

So your solution to the problem of bitcoin being unusable without power(and internet access) in a region is that in the future bitcoin will enable people to develop new technologies that don't currently exist? And they will be able to invent these new technologies because the only thing holding them back is in the inability to collect micropayments(which they can currently actually do using cash)?

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#212

Post by moe »

tzs wrote: post #154
Fuxy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the baking systems "digital currency" which can be confiscated from its owner or it owner prevented from using it in certain situations (see Wikileaks) bitcoin give you complete control over your own hard earned money and the causes you choose to support. It may not be much of a currency at the moment since banks are attempting hard to prevent its use but the freedom it gives you outweighs the risk of it being…

> Bitcoin would hurt Visa and Master Card very badly if it were adopted since it obsoletes their entire business practice. How do I do a chargeback on a purchase paid for via Bitcoin?

Ask your money back and they transfer it back to you in a new transaction.

What's the problem?

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#213

Post by FatalLogic »

sanswork wrote: post #24
Hermel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at the services built too. Mining companies and exchanges. Not really. Often, it is merchant solutions like BitPay or consumer services like Blockchain.info or Xapo that are funded. Most interesting in my opinion is blockstream. Mining tends to be privately funded outside the VC-ecosystem.

Bitpay is basically just a one way exchange that handles the trading for you. It is no different to end users except in the amount of work required. Xapo is a huge flop and accounts for 1/10th of that 400m. Bitfury accounts for another 1/10th. Blockchain raised a silly amount of money for a platform that most people in the community have lost faith in due to repeated security failings.

>Blockchain.info ... a platform that most people in the community have lost faith in

That's a remarkably bold claim. Citation definitely needed.

You will need to define the "community", and then provide a source for "most". I don't see how you can possibly do that, since both data points are lost in the murky fog that is the world of Bitcoin

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#214

Post by girvo »

jasonisalive wrote: post #187
pjc50 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did take pains to point out that it's a human rights violation, but that didn't stop you going straight for the Godwin, did it?

Sorry, you must have missed the part where you actually asserted that theft, the violation of private property, was net healthy for an economy. That's a) impossible b) arrogant and c) heartless. And I'm supposed to be the asshole...

I pass no judgement on whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, but:

> That's a) impossible

Well, that's prima facie not true. It can indeed be possible for theft and violation of private property to be a net good for the economy as a whole.

Again, I stress, I have no idea about this case per se. It's an interesting thought experiment though, as to when the government taking something away from private citizens like that can be good on the whole for an economy.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#215

Post by brazzy »

throwawayaway wrote: post #202
mr_luc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read that article you posted? Those stats assumed CPU/GPU and FPGA, not ASIC, miners. For instance, the 5-to-500-gigahash-per-second rigs would have to be running at over 300k watts of electricity using those statistics. :) So in reality, the network is much more efficient -- the high-end miners are using more than 100x less electricity (which would still be 3000 watts for high-end rigs per those numbers), an…

current hash rate GH/s: 300,000,000 // https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate GH/s/w: 4.6 // http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/ watts to provite current hash rate: 300,000,000/4.6 = 65,217,391.30 w kw to provide 1s: 65,217.39 an hour of that: 65,217.39*3600 234,782,604 kwh 10c per kwh => $23,478,260.4 per hour 24 hours => $563,478,249.60 my own figures are even more wacky so I would welcome some better…

Your calculation is WAY off, which the bizarrely high end result should have made obvious. Multiplying by 3600 is where you go wrong.

65,217kW is the energy usage. Providing that for an hour takes 65,217kWh - not multiplied by anything.

So that's $6,521 per hour, $156,521 per day.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#216

Post by XorNot »

lordnacho wrote: post #123

From what I can tell, it looks a lot like the oil price collapse. Not that it's directly connected, because BTC holdings are still very low and not really part of any serious investor's portfolio. But it looks like a lot of people have invested in extraction capacity, and they need to sell to remove their BTC risk. They're buying the mining equipment in dollars after all. And they know that faster and faster chips wi…

With the principle difference being that oil will go back up in price, provided you can store it, which is one of the reasons speculation on oil stopped about a year and half ago admidst price hikes: speculators literally started running out of space to store it.

The ability to hold onto Bitcoin offers no such guarantees.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#217

Post by sanswork »

moe wrote: post #212
tzs wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin would hurt Visa and Master Card very badly if it were adopted since it obsoletes their entire business practice. How do I do a chargeback on a purchase paid for via Bitcoin?

Ask your money back and they transfer it back to you in a new transaction. What's the problem?

Cases where they don't agree they should refund you.

Cases where they just don't want to refund you.

Cases where they are scammers/criminals.

Cases where your coins are stolen and spent at a store(the equivalent of having your card stolen to buy a tv at walmart).

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#218

Post by [deleted] »

tribaal wrote: post #10

Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#219

Post by sanswork »

FatalLogic wrote: post #213
sanswork wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitpay is basically just a one way exchange that handles the trading for you. It is no different to end users except in the amount of work required. Xapo is a huge flop and accounts for 1/10th of that 400m. Bitfury accounts for another 1/10th. Blockchain raised a silly amount of money for a platform that most people in the community have lost faith in due to repeated security failings.

>Blockchain.info ... a platform that most people in the community have lost faith in That's a remarkably bold claim. Citation definitely needed. You will need to define the "community", and then provide a source for "most". I don't see how you can possibly do that, since both data points are lost in the murky fog that is the world of Bitcoin

"community" /r/bitcoin|/r/bitcoinmarkets|bct

"source" the few weeks a month or so back where every second post was about how evil or bad or stupid blockchain.info was and no one should use them anymore. It was around the time the problem was discovered with their keygen and when someone was regularly sweeping coins from wallets on the service.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#220

Post by moe »

XorNot wrote: post #210
brazzy wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computational costs of traditional banking goes down in theory (in practice, they seem to easily overcompensate for that with increased complexity), but other costs (payroll, physical infrastructure, security thereof, etc.) do not. Unless you're proposing that the future of money is 100% digital, with minimal physical infrastructure. Admittedly, that is not entirely unrealistic, though I doubt things will go quite th…

Physical infrastructure costs have been declining for decades, with banks actively trying to push them down by prioritizing digital over physical services. Physical security also scales well. The volume of secure space you have increases to the 3rd power with only an approximately 2nd order increase in the costs of creating it (your basic area/space tradeoff working for you in this case). The argument that payroll do…

Finally and most importantly [...] the difficulty goes up, so more and more power is required to preserve the status quo.

Except... The difficulty also goes down.

But don't let facts get in the way of your flaming argument...

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