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Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

bitcoinity.org

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Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#91

Post by cyphunk »

pmorici wrote: post #81
k-mcgrady wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing to do with Bitcoin. You basically won the lottery. Some people mined or bought Bitcoin, it got a lot of media hype so the price sky rocketed, and then your coins were worth a lot of money. If I bought 200 BTC now and waited a few years I doubt I'd have the same experience. I'm happy for you that you got to use that to help you start a business but it was a lottery win.

"If I bought 200 BTC now and waited a few years I doubt I'd have the same experience." Why? This is like the 5th or 6th boom bust cycle in Bitcoin and each boom has been bigger than the last. even the current long price decline is not unprecedented.

and many of those boom's were propped up by bots on mtgox desperately trying to recover itself. it's easier to manufacturer a boom when you have a monopoly on the market with little to no transparency. Point is, there are reasonable doubts.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#92

Post by moe »

jokoon wrote: post #79

Does it really matter ? Wouldnt it smarter to use bitcoin as a secure way to make payments, but not to keep as a currency ? For example, if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you just buy the exact amount of bitcoins you need, you make the transaction, and the people who gets the bitcoins just convert it back to dollar. To escape the fluctuation of the conversion rate, just open a bank that keeps amount in dol…

Does it really matter ?

For BTC as a currency it doesn't matter at what price it's going to stabilise, as long as it reaches an equilibrium.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#93

Post by tribaal »

leni536 wrote: post #80
tribaal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. If someone steals my bitcoins, it means they have a copy of my private key, and there is nothing I can do about it. Zich. Nada. Transaction fees pay for this insurance (among other things, but still).

You can have multiple wallets though. You can have a really secured wallet, maybe signed with a smart card (is it possible? If yes then it's pretty much impossible to steal, unless someone steals it physically.) and have a less secure wallet on your smartphone. Your smartphone plays the role of a "regular wallet" and you only have minimal amounts on it (like what you need for daily purchases).

That's where my original comment of "I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal" comes from :)

I don't think the benefits of bitcoin outweight having to maintain (multiple) private key's security.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#94

Post by tlrobinson »

quonn wrote: post #27
xorcist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Was meant to be" amounts to your own view. The software isn't even called 1.0 yet, and the core developers all say the important applications are a couple of years away. Yes, Bitcoin was probably hurt by the mania surrounding $1000. Had it gone to $180 from $30, without the spike, there would be calls of tulip mania instead. Is it too early to build applications on top of Bitcoin? No, I don't think so, some wants to…

It's not beta software, it has been running for years and not much has changed. It has constantly lost value/trust for one year now. I can't think of a piece of software that is clearly _losing_ momentum (especially if it's beta) and then, magically, after 1.0 things turn around.

Price is probably not the right metric to gauge "momentum".

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#95

Post by cmdkeen »

pmorici wrote: post #81
k-mcgrady wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing to do with Bitcoin. You basically won the lottery. Some people mined or bought Bitcoin, it got a lot of media hype so the price sky rocketed, and then your coins were worth a lot of money. If I bought 200 BTC now and waited a few years I doubt I'd have the same experience. I'm happy for you that you got to use that to help you start a business but it was a lottery win.

"If I bought 200 BTC now and waited a few years I doubt I'd have the same experience." Why? This is like the 5th or 6th boom bust cycle in Bitcoin and each boom has been bigger than the last. even the current long price decline is not unprecedented.

This is like the 100th boom busy cycle in the stock market and each boom has been bigger than the last. Why not invest in equities?

Because past performance is not an indication of future performance, and because you don't know when the cycles are going to fall. Unless you're willing to lock up that capital whilst waiting for the uptick you're taking a huge risk.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#96

Post by bigbugbag »

tribaal wrote: post #10

Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…

You may be mistaken here, the day your bank disappear all your deposits and interests disappear with it. You probably this cannot happen which is what people believe until it happened to them, and this happened all around the world.

In Europe a 2013 law is now in effect which basically states no more bank bail-outs, from now on it will be bail-ins. In other words if a bank fails it will use its customer's deposits to cover its debt.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#97

Post by hueving »

leni536 wrote: post #80
tribaal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. If someone steals my bitcoins, it means they have a copy of my private key, and there is nothing I can do about it. Zich. Nada. Transaction fees pay for this insurance (among other things, but still).

You can have multiple wallets though. You can have a really secured wallet, maybe signed with a smart card (is it possible? If yes then it's pretty much impossible to steal, unless someone steals it physically.) and have a less secure wallet on your smartphone. Your smartphone plays the role of a "regular wallet" and you only have minimal amounts on it (like what you need for daily purchases).

And what happens when you lose said wallet?

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#98

Post by onion2k »

jokoon wrote: post #79

Does it really matter ? Wouldnt it smarter to use bitcoin as a secure way to make payments, but not to keep as a currency ? For example, if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you just buy the exact amount of bitcoins you need, you make the transaction, and the people who gets the bitcoins just convert it back to dollar. To escape the fluctuation of the conversion rate, just open a bank that keeps amount in dol…

Essentially you're proposing that BTC is used as'digital cash' rather than 'digital currency'. That's what Bitcoin is actually for - a cryptographically secure way of privately and anonymously transferring value between parties - rather than a fiat currency that has implicit value in itself that people can speculate on.

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#99

Post by hueving »

bigbugbag wrote: post #96
tribaal wrote: post #10

Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…

You may be mistaken here, the day your bank disappear all your deposits and interests disappear with it. You probably this cannot happen which is what people believe until it happened to them, and this happened all around the world. In Europe a 2013 law is now in effect which basically states no more bank bail-outs, from now on it will be bail-ins. In other words if a bank fails it will use its customer's deposits to…

Not in the US. If a bank fails, the FDIC will insure each account for 200 or 400k (can't remember which).

Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180

#100

Post by tribaal »

facepalm wrote: post #86
hueving wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bitcoin is the electronic version of "let's buy a lot of gold and stash it somewhere". It's even worse than that because normal people at least have a decent idea of when their gold is secure. A non-techie just has to trust that the online bitcoin provider or author of the wallet is doing what he/she really says and in a secure fashion.

Actually I find the problem of stashing gold very tricky. A bank vault seems like a bad idea because of the history when the government seized the gold and people weren't allowed to open their bank safes without a policeman. Hiding it at home seems risky because of burglaries. I haven't found a solution yet, that's why I don't own any gold. With bitcoin, at least I can spread the risk, like putting a part of the "sec…

That's exactly why I think it won't see more than marginal adoption.

The benefits of bitcoin are outweight by having to secure your private key(s) yourself.

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