Cue the standard HN bitcoin thread with everyone explaining why it is dead, why it could never work and why everyone involved with it is a scam or stupid anyway...
Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
71–80 of 348 posts
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#72Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…
I don't own any bitcoins, but felt like pointing a couple of things out. Whatever shreds of interest your bank gives you will be way, way less than the inflation you're experiencing. In other words, your money's purchasing power keeps decreasing even if you're getting some interest on it, ie. you're losing your wealth. Bitcoin doesn't experience inflation like that, so it should be a better store of value than your f…
There are no grounds to say that BTC should be a superior store of value. Aside from its very public history of being an absolutely abysmal store of value, it also has no central bank tending its value, as fiat currencies do, and no substantial trade denominated in it, which is what gives fiat currencies value in forex markets. It is solely a speculative vehicle. It sucks at commerce and it sucks at investment.
Bitcoin's sole value as a currency lies in its ease of use as a back-end for transactions. It's not a bad intermediary for transactions between people using different currencies, provided the third party transaction service has legal, fast, and cheap ways to convert to and from fiat in both countries. But then, it's not so much a currency as a transport layer with added uncertainty.
I've yet to see a compelling case for BTC as anything but TCP/IP for dollars or a wayback machine for anything you want. It's bad for savings, god-awful for investment, and useless for [legal] commerce.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
When was the last time you transferred money to someone (esp. out of country), how much did it cost, and how long did it take? Now, imagine you're poor, your family lives abroad, and a $20 fee on a $500 transfer is indeed a big issue. There are usability concerns (a bitcoin ATM to deposit money and have it sent to an address would be nice) but the use case of near-zero, same-day money transfers is enormous. In the af…
I do it pretty regularly as I move countries frequently and have bank accounts in 3 countries at the moment. I generally do international transfers 2-4 times a month. The last ~20 times I've transferred money overseas it has been in my receiving account the next morning and it usually costs ~0.3%. Bitcoin isn't better for remittance. Actually moving the money has never been the expensive parts of remittance it is giv…
I have to respectfully disagree. It is not the transaction fees itself, but the currency exchange rates that kill you at one end or the other. (I would agree with you regarding intra-Europe CEPA transfers however.)
I'm American and have lived overseas for several years and the currency exchange rates in combination with the 10-20 USD fees are a constant annoyance. And an annoyance for my startup which operates in USD but does business in several countries. It badly affects margin for smaller payments.
I'm a big Amazon Prime customer and I do a lot of purchase for family and friends for delivery in the US. I don't dare use my overseas credit card to pay for it, but if Amazon were to accept BTC I could pay from where I live. That would be very valuable to me personally.
I'm interested in bitcoin because it takes control away from traditional choke point exchange bank and also could serve as a 'world currency' of sorts. I also think that it would make possible a lot of cross-border sales that currently face real practical impediments.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#74I mined about 200 BTC in 2011 and I must say, they have changed my live. I still have 150, so during the passed 4 years, while bootstrapping 2 startups, those mere 50 bitcoins I sold have meant that I have been able to keep both companies running. Without those 50 coins, I'm not sure how I would have continued. But the most important thing was not the value of those 50 coins. Which really isn't that big a deal. It wa…
This is nothing to do with Bitcoin. You basically won the lottery. Some people mined or bought Bitcoin, it got a lot of media hype so the price sky rocketed, and then your coins were worth a lot of money. If I bought 200 BTC now and waited a few years I doubt I'd have the same experience. I'm happy for you that you got to use that to help you start a business but it was a lottery win.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#75Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…
"I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal." Well the value of the whole blockchain is over $2.5Bn, so it's more than anecdotal. http://coinmarketcap.com/
And Dogecoin has a value of 12 MUSD. A currency invented for the such wow.
The value of BTC speaks more about people prepared to jump into anything that seems to be the next fast way of making money than the long term viability of it.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> most people(in western nations) learn about it and respond almost unanimously with 'Meh'. I have very mundane needs, and I've never figured out a compelling case for me to use bitcoin. In general, it's always been more trouble than convenience. I know there are people with exotic needs, but I think the majority of people are more like me.
When was the last time you transferred money to someone (esp. out of country), how much did it cost, and how long did it take? Now, imagine you're poor, your family lives abroad, and a $20 fee on a $500 transfer is indeed a big issue. There are usability concerns (a bitcoin ATM to deposit money and have it sent to an address would be nice) but the use case of near-zero, same-day money transfers is enormous. In the af…
The last time I transferred money to someone it cost zero, and it took a few seconds. The same for recurring transfers to me. Last time I transferred abroad I think it cost £20 on a sum of several thousand for a swift transfer, which isn't terrible, and most importantly, the transfer was verified against identities and there is a record on both ends. Same with credit cards abroad and at home, except with much lower fees and strong guarantees against fraud after the payment.
Is it being used presently by lots of people on low incomes to transfer money? What if they do and it drops 10% on the day? How would they acquire it easily? How would they exchange it easily and quickly for their local currency?
I'd love to see a digital currency which actually competes in a meaningful way with the convenience of digital cash, but Bitcoin is nowhere close. It has serious issues with volatility, speculation, acquisition, storage and lack of regulation/insurance, all of which mean I wouldn't touch it in its current form.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although Bitcoin is often marketed as such, it doesn't necessarily compete with banks. I personally see it as a currency which competes with other currencies. It's a bit like paper cash except that it can be stored digitally. I don't see what would prevent "big bad banks" (although unlikely) from adopting BTC as one of the many currencies they support and offer all the protections and services they offer with other c…
Banks can already transfer fund between themselves electronically and efficiently. And a bank account is exactly storing paper currency digitally. Again, I don't see what the innovation here is, except the technical aspects (the blockchain as a distributed system is very clever).
> Banks can already transfer fund between themselves electronically and efficiently. And a bank account is exactly storing paper currency digitally.
Sure, but it doesn't matter what benefits Bitcoin offers to banks (although I do think you are overlooking a few). If banks ever were to support BTC denominated accounts, it would be because of consumer demand, not because Bitcoin is more efficient for them to store/transfer. So, what really matters is what benefits Bitcoin offers to consumers versus other currencies.
I'd say the two main benefits some people see in Bitcoin are: 1) it gives you the option to bypass the banking system when you want to or have to (e.g. if you have limited access to the banking system). Of course it's also possible with cash but a lot more inconvenient. 2) its predictable monetary supply.
I will give you that today, the price fluctuation and immature ecosystem makes USD and other national currencies a more viable choice for the average consumer.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#78Yeah, as much as I like the concept of bitcoin (and the blockchain), I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal. No interest rate, and you have to secure it yourself? No thanks. My "big bad bank" guarantees me at least a small interest in saving money, and if my card is stolen, I get a new one in 24 hours and all transactions are cancelled. I'm happy to pay some transaction fees ("extortion!") to get…
One bitcoin application that is reasonable is as a transferable karma token.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#79Does it really matter ?
Wouldnt it smarter to use bitcoin as a secure way to make payments, but not to keep as a currency ?
For example, if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you just buy the exact amount of bitcoins you need, you make the transaction, and the people who gets the bitcoins just convert it back to dollar.
To escape the fluctuation of the conversion rate, just open a bank that keeps amount in dollar and only do transaction with a corresponding amount of BTC, depending on the conversion rate. It's an easy way to diversify payment alternative, while being pretty safe and avoiding fluctuations of BTC.
I don't see any other way to use bitcoin. It's pretty hairy, but it might be a viable alternative to paypal for example.
Re: Bitcoin crashes over 25% in 24 hours, under $180
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't own any bitcoins, but felt like pointing a couple of things out. Whatever shreds of interest your bank gives you will be way, way less than the inflation you're experiencing. In other words, your money's purchasing power keeps decreasing even if you're getting some interest on it, ie. you're losing your wealth. Bitcoin doesn't experience inflation like that, so it should be a better store of value than your f…
> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. If someone steals my bitcoins, it means they have a copy of my private key, and there is nothing I can do about it. Zich. Nada. Transaction fees pay for this insurance (among other things, but still).
You can have multiple wallets though. You can have a really secured wallet, maybe signed with a smart card (is it possible? If yes then it's pretty much impossible to steal, unless someone steals it physically.) and have a less secure wallet on your smartphone. Your smartphone plays the role of a "regular wallet" and you only have minimal amounts on it (like what you need for daily purchases).