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Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

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Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#41

Post by mc32 »

btilly wrote: post #14

It will be interesting to see this unfold. But I am inclined to believe Ulbricht here. My main reason for finding it immediately believable is that the name "Dread Pirate Roberts" is an obvious Princess Bride reference to a pirate who inherited his trade and occupation from another pirate. That combined with the fact that the name did not appear on the forums for the first few months leads me to believe that the name…

People were inclined to believe Hans Reiser too[1],[2], untill he led the police to Nina's body.

Despite all the evidence, lots of people did not want to believe it was him and held out for hope, in the end, though, people realized indeed it was he who did it.

[1] http://news.slashdot.org/story/08/06/09/1155214/hans-reiser-...

[2]http://yro.slashdot.org/story/08/02/23/2218256/hans-reiser-a...

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#42

Post by mercurialshark »

btilly wrote: post #14

It will be interesting to see this unfold. But I am inclined to believe Ulbricht here. My main reason for finding it immediately believable is that the name "Dread Pirate Roberts" is an obvious Princess Bride reference to a pirate who inherited his trade and occupation from another pirate. That combined with the fact that the name did not appear on the forums for the first few months leads me to believe that the name…

But I am inclined to believe Ulbricht here.

You don't even need to believe him, as long as it casts doubt on the prosecution's narrative. I'm interested to see what digital forensics the government relies on to prove association with the evidence. Is he guilty? Probably. But that is not sufficient for conviction, at least in theory.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#43

Post by bsder »

diminoten wrote: post #40

So for him to effectively use this defense, he'd have to cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution's evidence that he was "Dread Pirate Roberts"? And in order to do that, he'd have to discredit the authenticity of their evidence that his computer was the one doing all the work, which means the defense would have to show that his computer was hacked, and all of the evidence was forged by the hacker(s). How's he going t…

Well, if his defense can throw up enough dust, the government will likely have to abandon the charges around murder and go for something a lot lower level.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#44

Post by neotek »

phaus wrote: post #30
neotek wrote: post #7

I know he's fighting for his freedom and you can't begrudge a man for doing whatever it takes to beat a charge, but I really think this is such a cop-out defense and I wish he had the balls to act like the same person he pretended to be when he was writing his grand manifestos about freedom of choice and individual rights. Whatever Ulbricht himself may be, whether or not the murder for hire allegations are true, howe…

>the libertarian ideals that justify the existence of Silk Road should have their day in court Real trials don't play out like they do in hollywood. You don't get to spend your time in court talking about your ideology and lobbying for better laws. The entire trial will be about whether or not he's guilty of breaking the laws that already exist.

You're missing my point: I don't want him to stand up in court and lecture on the nature of freedom and personal responsibility like something out of Inherit The Wind, I would just like to see him take the rap for what he (probably) did without this silly "it was the one armed man" defense.

It's not about the trial, because the trial is lost no matter what he does (regardless of whether or not he's innocent, he's going to jail, guaranteed), it's about nailing your colours to the wall and showing the rest of the world that you're willing to go to jail to stand up for the freedoms you ostensibly believe in.

Ulbricht won't be doing any of that, instead he's going to mount a defense that effectively says that his manifesto, his politics, his core beliefs, are all just something to be discarded when it's convenient.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#45

Post by fsloth »

neotek wrote: post #12
mahyarm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People espouse libertarian ideals because they are terrified of the power of the state and do not trust it. To go with this kind of defense, especially when you don't have many options, is not hypocritical. It's easy to say 'have some balls' from the safety of your keyboard.

I didn't suggest it was hypocritical, and nor did I suggest Ulbricht should feel compelled to defend the principles he wrote about. I'm saying that I wish he (or anyone in his position) would fight for those ideals, which are entirely justified in a world where NSA spying is treated as the punchline to a late night show monologue joke.

Someone always has the de facto authority to wield violence.

In modern society, this authority is the state.

In Dread Pirate Robert's universe, no authority should wield violence... except Dread Pirate and his associates if it suites them.

Libertarian and anarchistic ideologies start from the wish that no-one would wield violence and all would be equal.

Unfortunately, how real world scenarios evolve is that existing system is replaced by chaos, from which a few entities reach political authority, at which point they take the authority to wield violence and make the decisions for everyone else they want to make.

Anarchy and the like work only in smaller social groups such as a family or a commune where everyone can rationally assume everyone can be trusted and to act fairly within the context of an uncodified behavioral standard - to stay within the groups culture.

At larger scales these types of population dynamics just don't work, and the stuff rises up which require the equivalent of the functions of modern state to function properly as a whole.

The point is, if there is no central auhtority, someone will become that authority (picture somalian warlords, russia after 1917 revolution and so on).

So replacing current state with an entity on 'non-violence' and non-coercion does not work - these are sociological oxymorons that do not exist.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#46

Post by neotek »

oska wrote: post #26
neotek wrote: post #7

I know he's fighting for his freedom and you can't begrudge a man for doing whatever it takes to beat a charge, but I really think this is such a cop-out defense and I wish he had the balls to act like the same person he pretended to be when he was writing his grand manifestos about freedom of choice and individual rights. Whatever Ulbricht himself may be, whether or not the murder for hire allegations are true, howe…

How about we wait for his defence to be tested in court before we pre-judge it as "doing whatever it takes to beat a charge"? Did you stop to think it might possibly be true before complaining that your own interests - having the trial be a showcase for libertarian ideals - may not end up being served by this particular man's prosecution?

>Did you stop to think it might possibly be true before complaining that your own interests - having the trial be a showcase for libertarian ideals - may not end up being served by this particular man's prosecution?

Nope. My opinion is that it's a desperate ploy from a guilty man who knows that the strength of the evidence against him is so great that he's resorting to a defense they wouldn't use in a movie plot because it's so unbelievable. I'm entirely unapologetic about my opinion, because that's what it is, an opinion. Fortunately I'm neither judge nor jury in this case.

Also, don't put words in my mouth and don't ascribe motives to me that I don't have. The very first sentence of my comment says explicitly that I understand he's free to mount whatever defense he likes - it's his freedom to lose.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#47

Post by neotek »

fsloth wrote: post #45
neotek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't suggest it was hypocritical, and nor did I suggest Ulbricht should feel compelled to defend the principles he wrote about. I'm saying that I wish he (or anyone in his position) would fight for those ideals, which are entirely justified in a world where NSA spying is treated as the punchline to a late night show monologue joke.

Someone always has the de facto authority to wield violence. In modern society, this authority is the state. In Dread Pirate Robert's universe, no authority should wield violence... except Dread Pirate and his associates if it suites them. Libertarian and anarchistic ideologies start from the wish that no-one would wield violence and all would be equal. Unfortunately, how real world scenarios evolve is that existing…

Well stated, and I completely agree. I think there's a balance to be struck between personal liberty and social responsibility and DPR's writings don't address that balance at all, not to mention his alleged actions.

But there are some core arguments about freedom of choice that Silk Road addressed in some ways, and DPR was a figurehead for those arguments, and to see him ignore those ideals in exchange for a half-hearted defense like this is disappointing, that's all. Whether or not he's guilty, DPR is dead and Silk Road achieved nothing.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#48

Post by hackerboos »

kassemi wrote: post #19

Given a jury without sufficient education and a case with as much technical nuance as this and then a reasonable doubt that the same technical nuance could indicate a frame job... Seems like an ok move...

I'd say it was a good strategy in light of overwhelming evidence he is connected to the site.

He's still going to prison just maybe not for the rest of his life.

Re: Silk Road Defense Says Ulbricht Was Framed by the ‘Real’ Dread Pirate Roberts

#50

Post by krapp »

rayiner wrote: post #23
krapp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His trial probably wouldn't be a proper venue for that. Those principles are that the laws he's accused of breaking shouldn't exist. This would be a very difficult defense to make in a criminal court, which both presupposes the credibility of the laws on the books and its own legitimate capacity to adjudicate them. The court of popular opinion seems to be edging ever so slightly in Ulbricht's favor. Morally and polit…

> The court of popular opinion seems to be edging ever so slightly in Ulbricht's favor. On what planet? Public opinion just shifted in favor of legalizing marijuana in 2013, but support for keeping everything else illegal is overwhelming: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/17/drug-legalization-p... . Around 10% of people support legalizing cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, or LSD. 80-85% oppose legalizing those drugs.…

Legalizing marijuana alone is a shift, if not a huge one.
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