First, the Albequerque incident was cold blooded murder and the indictment is very appropriate.
Second, flash bang use is already dramatically declining so this sory is about three years to late. But nice effort.
The Human Toll of Flashbangs
101–110 of 262 posts
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#102I don't live in the US, so I am maybe missing something but, if the police wants to arrest someone, wouldn't be easier to wait until this person leaves the house, grab him on the street and tell him: "Hi mate, we are the police and now you are under arrest". I don't see the need of assaulting a home.
That didn't work in England when they wanted to arrest a terror suspect, so they secretly followed him to work one day, then shot him dead as he entered the train station. It turned out he was a plumber, not a terrorist.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#103I'm so past fed up with police in America. The drug war is pathological. The notion that a cop can kill an unarmed suspect with impunity (especially if they're black or homeless or mentally ill) is disgusting. The belief that "law and order" is a value worth allowing one group the exclusive privilege of breaking any law and causing any disorder they like without consequence simply has to end. I'm at the point where I…
America isn't the problem, Americans are. Everyone who voted for this is to blame. From what I understand you can even vote for some of the local judges or prosecutors too! There's no excuse but to recognize that your neighbors are responsible for the problems due to their own selfishness. They want the police to be brutal because the drug raid isn't going to be on their home, it'll be on some poor person's home and…
You're partially right, though overly optimistic about the power of "democracy" in America. It's worth recognizing the power of gerrymandering and money in elections. But, that's another discussion. There is no such thing as a viable political candidate who discusses reigning in police power...not because of the voting public. In America we choose between two parties who have differences, but there are entire categories of governance on which they are in lock step. Police is one of those categories. You will never hear a Republican or a Democrat suggest abolition of the institution of police as we know it, or even demanding basic accountability for killer cops.
Short of revolution, the only effective tools citizens have is to educate more people about the problems (and the cost of "tough on crime" policies), protest the clear human rights violations, film police so there are fewer invisible victims, demand accountability from city councils and mayors and police chiefs, etc. And, I do a little bit of all of these things (there's a Black Lives Matter march on Saturday here in Austin; I'll be there).
So, yes, many Americans are stupid, violent, poorly-educated, racist, and vindictive, or at least support law enforcement that is all of those things. But, the number of people who support no-knock raids is surely not high enough to claim the people chose this (I don't know, but I can't imagine it would be).
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#104I'm so past fed up with police in America. The drug war is pathological. The notion that a cop can kill an unarmed suspect with impunity (especially if they're black or homeless or mentally ill) is disgusting. The belief that "law and order" is a value worth allowing one group the exclusive privilege of breaking any law and causing any disorder they like without consequence simply has to end. I'm at the point where I…
You are right, but there's a huge obstacle in the form of people who trumpet the notion of liberty (for some) while simultaneously supporting draconian/authoritarian policies for other people, and who make up a fairly solid political constituency. Even people who don't necessarily approve of such policies are strongly conditioned to accept them through their incessant repetition on television shows, news, and so forth. Producers of such shows aren't necessarily part of a secret conspiracy to scare the populace - although you could wonder about their network buyers - but are simply trying to provide engaging entertainment, and police shows reliably draw large audience, as do detective shows and stories. I'm not immune from this, I love a good detective story.
The net effect is an ideological structure within which the distribution of power becomes further entrenched. No conspiracy to engineer such an outcome is required; like many other social phenomena, it can emerge naturally due to market forces, and is arguably a unintentional by-product of the economic and political structures.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I grew up in Ellijay, GA and many police offers were bullies in my highschool. The city doesn't really have the cream of the crop or the pay to choose otherwise.
Small world: My grandparents have lived there for a fair length of time. I remember driving by the county courthouse where a klan rally was being held in the mid 2000's with a Grand Wizard in red robes and everything. I've been told that the county/town even had a celebration when the census came back with no minorities at one point. As such, it's no stretch of my imagination what kind of gray areas the law enforceme…
In the mid 2000's? That's just so sad.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#106The use of flash bangs by law enforcement is horrifying. These tools were design for to support direct action missions by special operations forces, and are, essentially, burning thermite [1] (e.g. able to melt through an engine block). To be clear, a direct operation mission is the use of lethal force to kill or capture one or more individuals or perform high risk hostage rescue. In these types of military operation…
You pretty bang on. I think the unfortunate thing is that it has become an arms race. The police up their arms in response to civilians-gone-bad having heavier weapons. If I were in the police, I can imagine I'd feel safer riding in a tank to take down a suspected 'dangerous' criminal too.
I think in some ways, this is a result of our fondness for the second amendment rights and arms as well as accepting the police as a necessary force to keep the peace.
I'm not sure if there is an easy way to de-escalate things. We might start with police 'engagement' procedures standardized from a federal level --but there'd probably be pushback from the states.
I do have a quibble with _always_ presuming innocence. If you see someone in the act, then I think they can take action without such presumption.
One of the specially hard things for me to understand is the necessity to shoot at 'disturbed' people wielding knives. Yes, I know knives are deadly --however, knives don't travel very far, compared to firearms, why not back up, give them a safe distance and try to de-escalate before shooting at the 'lunge.' Again, I know most of those disturbed people do mean harm[1], but you can avoid their intended harm by giving them space.
[1] Some intending assisted but unintended suicide from the police.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#107The use of flash bangs by law enforcement is horrifying. These tools were design for to support direct action missions by special operations forces, and are, essentially, burning thermite [1] (e.g. able to melt through an engine block). To be clear, a direct operation mission is the use of lethal force to kill or capture one or more individuals or perform high risk hostage rescue. In these types of military operation…
and are, essentially, burning thermite What makes you think flashbangs contain thermite? From what I can tell they contain a small amount of explosives[1]. The filler consists of a pyrotechnic metal-oxidant mix of magnesium or aluminium, and an oxidizer such as ammonium perchlorate or potassium perchlorate. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stun_grenade
A mixture of potassium chlorate and aluminum powder is the original composition for M-80 firecrackers. Potassium perchlorate is a modern day swap-in. I imagine the flash bang composition is tweaked to increase the flash.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#108That the officers involved in these incidents are never indicted is kind of a red herring. They follow procedure and feel like they've done nothing wrong.
The real issue is that we allow a procedure in which occasionally we throw grenades at babies.
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#109The use of flash bangs by law enforcement is horrifying. These tools were design for to support direct action missions by special operations forces, and are, essentially, burning thermite [1] (e.g. able to melt through an engine block). To be clear, a direct operation mission is the use of lethal force to kill or capture one or more individuals or perform high risk hostage rescue. In these types of military operation…
There's a recent case in Albuquerque where 2 police officers are being charged with murder. In the case the police disorient a guy with a flashbang then shoot him as he turns away The police video shows Boyd talking with an officer who was seemingly trying to reach an end to the stalemate. As he picks up his backpack, Boyd tells the officer to keep his word, and not to worry about safety. "I'm not a [f———] murderer,"…
For anyone interested in the video:
Warning it's graphical, naturally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpAZObNZfI
To summarize, indeed he says 'Im not a murderer' while picking up his bag, just standing around. They fire the grenade, tell him to get down blabla. He never steps forward in any way, charges them or attacks, while the officers close in and put a dog on him. Seconds later he turns away and gets shot multiple times.
From this point on he's not moving at all and just laying there. They shoot him a couple times with bean bags and put the dog on him again.
I don't hear him saying he's unable to move. It just looks like he's unconscious or dead at that point. He's just laying there still while they're deliberating whether to put the dog on him (and do).
Re: The Human Toll of Flashbangs
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
America isn't the problem, Americans are. Everyone who voted for this is to blame. From what I understand you can even vote for some of the local judges or prosecutors too! There's no excuse but to recognize that your neighbors are responsible for the problems due to their own selfishness. They want the police to be brutal because the drug raid isn't going to be on their home, it'll be on some poor person's home and…
You're partially right, though overly optimistic about the power of "democracy" in America. It's worth recognizing the power of gerrymandering and money in elections. But, that's another discussion. There is no such thing as a viable political candidate who discusses reigning in police power...not because of the voting public. In America we choose between two parties who have differences, but there are entire categor…