71–80 of 88 posts
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> spend weeks at a time just trying to install Linux, get it to boot, and get a development environment working I think we found the problem. It's between chair and keyboard.
Actually, Eric Lengyel is a well-respected guy and programmer. If an OS takes him long (and by long I mean more than 10 minutes) to install and configure, that doesn't speak all-too-well for that OS.
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Autotools, gcc, needed libraries, binary blob drivers for the video card, a terminal emulator and vim with a bunch of scripts.
I like how you gloss over the "needed libraries". But seriously, let's take a quick look (here)[ http://www.terathon.com/architecture.php ] and think, what might be a clear pain point in Linux, even if the "needed libraries" worked perfectly with all the hardware and all distros and the blobs were perfect. Did I hear someone say "Linux sound support"? Yes, that is a correct answer. Sound in Linux is a know clusterfuc…
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I like how you gloss over the "needed libraries". But seriously, let's take a quick look (here)[ http://www.terathon.com/architecture.php ] and think, what might be a clear pain point in Linux, even if the "needed libraries" worked perfectly with all the hardware and all distros and the blobs were perfect. Did I hear someone say "Linux sound support"? Yes, that is a correct answer. Sound in Linux is a know clusterfuc…
Use PortAudio for sound (MIT license), Qt for the GUI and various OS dependent abstractions (threads, mutexes, etc.) - LGPL. If you don't like the OpenGL wrapper from Qt, go with FreeGLUT (MIT) or SDL (zlib license).
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Use PortAudio for sound (MIT license), Qt for the GUI and various OS dependent abstractions (threads, mutexes, etc.) - LGPL. If you don't like the OpenGL wrapper from Qt, go with FreeGLUT (MIT) or SDL (zlib license).
I'm not arguing that there aren't any libraries.
While Linux development, especially for game development, does has it's fare share of pain points. I don't think this should be interpreted as any more than it is, a single developer deciding he wants to stop supporting, one specific platform. Eric is indeed a very skilled programmer, but this engine is very much developed to meet his whims. He hasn't yet released any games on it, and the vast majority of his engine…
"I suspect he's used to developing in Windows, likely with visual studio, and in comparison, Linux can feel quite archaic. And in that context, maintaining Linux build systems can seem quite painful, likely the primary reason it's getting dropped." That's not it. Eric explained it in here: http://www.terathon.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14050&sid...
My 3 cents: Maybe a possible alternative would be to focus on one particular linux distribution, like ubuntu or debian, with certain dirty intall scripts ? Or go all the way and just deliver a bootable CD or USB drive that install the games somewhere, and then boots up a certain linux kernel configuration with specific, working nvidia or amd drivers. Honestly if I had a successful game I could sell, I'd try to sell i…
You're really suggesting people in a field that is constantly pushing the boundaries of graphics to drop one of the things they do best?
> do you really need that shader
Yes!
> I don't think any small developer who wants to release on linux can really compete with AAA
You'd be surprised with what a small developer can do, See tomorrow children. Sadly sometimes it sometimes seems that if you want to push graphics features, you cannot release on Linux.
> Having basic 3D rendering is already awesome in itself
No, not really. I'd prefer 2D rendering to basic 3D rendering.
> don't try to compete with what other games have already done, and focus on things that are doable and have been done well for a long time
Did you really just contradict yourself in the same sentence?
Though, more to the point, the problem isn't that getting something running Linux would be difficult. The problem is that in order for Linux to have proper and first-rate support, or in some cases, any support at all, you need to start getting developers working on it as a primary development platform. And if I can't do the things that I, as a graphics programmer, need to do, I'll go elsewhere. Working on Linux is nice, but if I have to choose between developing the game I want to, or having Linux support, that's a trivial decision.
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Actually, Eric Lengyel is a well-respected guy and programmer. If an OS takes him long (and by long I mean more than 10 minutes) to install and configure, that doesn't speak all-too-well for that OS.
Have you seen his coding conventions? http://www.terathon.com/wiki/index.php/Coding_Conventions
It's also possible he prepossesses the comments out.
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Autotools, gcc, needed libraries, binary blob drivers for the video card, a terminal emulator and vim with a bunch of scripts.
I like how you gloss over the "needed libraries". But seriously, let's take a quick look (here)[ http://www.terathon.com/architecture.php ] and think, what might be a clear pain point in Linux, even if the "needed libraries" worked perfectly with all the hardware and all distros and the blobs were perfect. Did I hear someone say "Linux sound support"? Yes, that is a correct answer. Sound in Linux is a know clusterfuc…
Worst for him. I personally feel that C & C++ develop on Windows is ANAL. Installing libs and detecting isntalled libs, it's very problematic, when on my GNU/Linux desktop I only need to do a : sudo apt-get XXX or git clone XXX & make & sudo make install
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VMs just add another dimension to the pain of incompatible or buggy components. I don't know if VMWare provides modern OpenGL support (3.x or better). I have only experience with Virtual Box, and only ever got OpenGL 2.1 (8 years old) without extensions running with hardware acceleration, but with bugs (e.g. vsync never works). Right now I can't update to the latest VBox version because its display driver is incompat…
Ah, fair point - VMWare only gets you OpenGL 2.1 & given that the guy is writing a games engine he probably wants 3.x at least.