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What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

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Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#341

Post by RaleyField »

ksk wrote: post #271
api wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but ultimately this is a band-aid over the fact that OSes have terrible permission separation and application isolation. If OSes were better architected from a security point of view, it would be substantially less of a problem.

You seem to know a lot more about operating systems design than Microsoft. Why don't you submit a paper?

There is tons of old research that just hasn't been put in practice. There are 3 major desktop OSes, and they all adopt 80's view on security i.e. security is mainly about separating users and not necessarily about separating applications.

a) I'd like all applications to be run in sandboxes. That way you don't have to care if you application has malware or its processes got hacked. You have that in iOS I believe (but iOS has other problems), but to various degrees it's been done in solaris and freebsd, probably can be hacked in linux but no major distro has it as a precooked solution.

b) Have OS written in memory safe language. Microsoft got Singularity, I have no idea why that never saw the light of day. That thing could kill Linux on a large portion of the server market. Hopefully we will get something written in Rust now.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#342

Post by ceejayoz »

scott_karana wrote: post #297
larrik wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion time: I've had a Mac Mini for 3 years, and I still haven't found any Apple-made desktop software I would call "decent". I've had only iPhones since the 3G came out, too, so I'm not just an anti-fanboy.

Surely you must tolerate OSX, or why would you still use the Mac Mini?

It's entirely possible to run Linux/Windows on Mac hardware.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#343

Post by ksk »

RickHull wrote: post #335
ksk wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're going around in circles I think. The entire problem is that the users have no idea prior to installing the software, whether its legit or malware. I don't see anything in what you've proposed that solves the root problem. Yes, we can look at peripheral problems like cleanup and revoking certificates but those only affect users AFTER they've already made the choice of installing a particular piece of software.

> We're going around in circles I think. Just you, my friend. If you recall, here is the point you were challenging: > this is a band-aid over the fact that OSes have terrible permission separation and application isolation. If OSes were better architected from a security point of view, it would be substantially less of a problem. Would you now concede this point?

> If you recall, here is the point you were challenging:

Yes, and I didn't receive any information that would lead me to believe that applying his/her suggestions would substantially tackle the root problem. All process isolation does is push the problem out further into the application side of things. Now the user has to micromanage the data flow in between applications. The root problem has very little to do with OS architecture, and I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

>Would you now concede this point?

Okay. If you insist. I have no desire to "win" the argument. It's merely idle chit chat for me. My code's compiling ;)

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#344

Post by kbenson »

frogpelt wrote: post #331
kbenson wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are still missing the complete context of the original comment. Once a browser is set as default, for a significant portion of people that won't change unless they are somehow prompted or forced to change it again at a later date. To many people, the browser is just another part of the OS that allows viewing webpages, and they just call it "The internet".

It seems if they were that clueless, they would have had many more opportunities to change default browsers without realizing it.

What other browsers auto-install from other software and automatically change your default?

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#345

Post by Ollinson »

petecooper wrote: post #143

Mobile computer tech, here. War story follows. I handle high single-figures of these adware and/or potentially unwanted programs (PUPs) infestations every week. Mostly it's Windows 7 and 90% adware/PUPs-centric, occasionally ransomware. In the huge majority of cases, the following will get a computer back up and sorted in a sensible amount of (billable) time: First, bring known-good copies of AdwCleaner, Junkware Rem…

Is there any particular reason you don't just backup all of the user's personal files/configurations, note what programs they have installed and then reformat/reinstall?

Doing this you would be 100% adware free and the client might even notice/appreciate the speed boost of a fresh install.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#346

Post by Maarten88 »

Funny, at the bottom of this article there's a Google Adsense Ad for a "Free Malware Removal installer". Even their own site needs monetization and is part of the problem.

This article shows pretty well how polluted the Windows software ecosystem has become, it is a huge problem for Microsoft. I hope the Windows Store situation will improve with the next version of Windows.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#347

Post by mcx »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #237
mcx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I visited my dad and his laptop was just full of crapware. I noticed the only thing he uses is the web browser, maybe editing the occasional word doc. So I just wiped the machine, put on ElementaryOS and hopefully there will be less problems. Haven't heard any complaints so far.

I did this for my sister this Christmas. Every holiday she visits and hands me her laptop to be fixed or reformated. So I got fed up, installed eOS and the tweaks plugin, got Netflix and mp3/aac support working, and told her I had installed Mac OSX on her laptop. If I had told her it was Linux, she would be too scared to touch the thing, but she honestly believes she has a Mac now (in a Dell laptop), and hasn't compl…

Absolutely, that was a huge reason I decided to make the switch to Linux. Coming home and getting a stack of laptops from family and friends, becomes a hassle. I didn't come here to spend my day reinstalling Windows!

After I reformatted the machine, I just handed it over and didn't even mention that it was running Linux, just to see if there be any reaction like, "this is not Windows!" and the only question I was asked was "what is the password to unlock the screensaver".

It's a real drag having to go to like Dell to find and download all the drivers, and then download and install things like Java, Flash, etc.

Having a package manager is a huge win, I can write a ansible playbook to configure the machine and make sure the packages are always up to date with something like unattended-upgrades and then call it a day.

I'm just glad my parents don't use online banking, so I get some peace of mind there.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#348

Post by aragot »

api wrote: post #292
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #41

And this is why Apple created Gatekeeper and made the Mac OS X App Store so ridiculously onerous for developers[1]. The software world is, for all intents and purposes, a thin sheen of gold flecks and diamonds atop a veritable cesspool of shit. You can just imagine the conversation at 1 Infinite Loop: Marketer: The Panic guys are considering pulling out of the App Store. Maybe we should reconsider our App Store strat…

One thing we're seeing here is a clash of business cultures. Most developers and businesspeople that would hang around Hacker News are the sort of people who think business is about delivering the most value you can and getting paid for it. But globally that's really a minority point of view. Most global business focuses exclusively on the getting paid part, and tries to deliver the least possible value required to g…

Also, it seems like no-one is ever pursued to justice for creating such software, and this is the opposite of the greater public's expectations.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#349

Post by psykovsky »

towelguy wrote: post #234
serf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is bundled with crap-ware , too; it's just more subtle. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.html http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/ubuntu-bakes-amazon-...

That's the #1 reason ALL the computers in my house aren't Ubuntu but Debian.

Yeah, I still prefer any Ubuntu LTS release and 10 minutes of post-install tweaking to Debian. Plus I like Unity. And lubuntu is very well suited for the rest of the ex-windows users. It has been 4 years. Nobody complained, apart from a couple of guys on HN. Certainly not the users, and they are who matter the most.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#350

Post by scrollaway »

lotharbot wrote: post #267
scrollaway wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I know quite a few people who are too broke to pay $1 for most apps. You are implying that people pirate $1 games "because they're too cheap to pay" which most of the time is just completely untrue - for a lot of people, it's a matter of not having the money. Some people here need to take a reality check break once in a while and look at people who don't make as much as they do.

If they somehow came up with the money to buy an iPhone -- $500+ unlocked, or $100+/month on a multi-year contract -- they don't "not [have] the money" to occasionally spend $1 on an app. They've just chosen to spend a lot on the phone itself, which might not leave much left over. Lest you think I'm speaking from a position of not understanding poverty: my salary in 2013 was $21k pre-tax, with a wife and a kid. I had…

> If they somehow came up with the money to buy an iPhone -- $500+ unlocked, or $100+/month on a multi-year contract

Looks like you need the reality check I was talking about. I can find you $40 smartphones in countries that aren't the one you're in. And by the way, $40 can still be a huge investment for such people (just like $500 is to a lot of people in the US).

Edit: Those downvotes-without-explanation are really unnecessary, seriously. If you think I'm wrong, you very well may need a reality check yourself.

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