What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#261

Post by GuiA » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

cdr wrote: post #213

jacquesm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's by far the worst company they ever invested in. See here for PG's take on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711

I dunno, there's a few contenders. Scribd was pretty bad. RapGenius was pretty bad in terms of the people. Edit: Oh, and Quora, even if that wasn't much more than YC lending its name.

And Airbnb was spamming Craigslist posters (https://growthhackers.com/companies/airbnb/ - but of course selling cereals is the anecdote preferred by storytellers), and I have freelancer friends who got totally screwed by YC companies ("We can't pay for your work right now but we'll hire you and give you tons of equity right after demo day!" ... only to never respond to their emails ever again. Yes, the few of my friends to whom this happened could have been less naive, but still shitty).

The vast majority (but not all) of startups do dubious things. That's to be expected in an environment that glorifies "breaking things" and worrying later if what they're doing is legal or not. Being YC affiliated does not change that in the slightest bit.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#262

Post by Karunamon » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #80

iSnow wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic, considering that Apple did exactly the same, when you installed QuickTime on Windows. They tried to trick you into installing iTunes and Safari and set them as default apps. Also, it stinks that Apple has nailed iOS that shut that even as a knowledgeable user you are not able to bypass it. They did not yet dare to do the same on Mac OS, but who knows when that comes.

Apple are quite happy to trash another company's OS. The Windows iTunes experience was terrible : it ate resources, was opaque in operation, didn't always sync properly and could occasionally wipe your devices. It used to be required for OS updates. The "nailing shut" is an increasing problem for anyone that believes in a free market in software. Which isn't helped by all these sites shipping value-negative software.

As an anecdote to counter another anecdote, I've never had these problems with Windows iTunes. I've used it since getting the HP branded iPod back in '02 (I think), and my music library has grown into the upper tens of thousands of songs since then.

It's caused me to believe that all these people trashing on iTunes have broken computers, because the software plainly doesn't do half the crap it's accused of doing.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#263

Post by VLM » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

relaytheurgency wrote: post #228

richardwhiuk wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's due to the much smaller install base. As soon as you get any commercial software on linux, you break outside the package manager and start getting closer to crapware (see graphics drivers installation process which is normally 'download this shell file and execute it as root').

At that level (you're using linux, know what 'root' is, how to access root and how to execute a shell file as root) you're being lazy if something like that bites you in the ass.

Also its possible to screw up a system that way, but its easier / lazier to just install the wrapper package that takes care of everything including dependencies.

So on freebsd, pkg install nvidia-driver, or on legacy linux apt-get install nvidia-driver and you're all done.

Someone looking for trouble could do it the hard and dangerous way, but why?

Also commercial software other than possibly games, is dead man walking and is dead on FOSS platforms. Sure, go ahead, pretend its the 80s and try to charge me money for an editor, or a compiler, or pretend its the 90s and try to charge me for a web browser or a database, its just not happening.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#264

Post by jmilloy » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #155

jmilloy wrote: post #151

I agree that there is a lot of useless software, malware, and annoying bundling on download.com and in the Windows software ecosystem at large. But seriously, it's not hard to avoid installing a lot of bundled software. I'd be more interested in what happens when you install the Top Download.com Apps without the obviously bundled crap. And I'm certainly not interested in hearing complaints about what the programs do…

How is it unintelligent to point out that downloading a few apps from a (formerly) reputable source of free apps results in your computer being basically unusable? What the article showed shouldn't happen, and it did despite download.com's assurances that it wouldn't.

The article is objectively misleading. The title reads "What happens when you install x", but instead they proceed to install x, y, and z. Is it so surprising that when you "click next to install program y", that program y is installed? Download.com doesn't promise not to bundle software, it promises not to install bundled software without the user's consent, which is obscured in this demo. I'm not saying that Download.com is doing the right thing; I'm saying that this article is failing to isolate where the problem really is.

Furthermore, they complain about things that aren't related to Download.com at all. For example, they install YAC and then complain that YAC is installed and working as advertised. Again, it obscures the actual investigation. Consider that this isn't Download.com's recommended apps; it's simply the most downloaded applications. Just because a lot of people download something isn't an assurance that it does something useful. Go to the Editor's Picks for that, which includes many useful and clean programs. Or even the Top Downloads of all time, rather than Last Week.

By obscuring the results of the demo and failing to distinguish between things that should happen and things that shouldn't, HTG makes it harder for us intelligently discuss the Download.com ecosystem. They fail to educate users about bundled software and how to avoid it. Instead, we're just regurgitating vague opinions that the Windows ecosystem is terrible.

The title should read something more like "What happens when you blindly install applications a lot of other people installed" which makes it much easier to discuss whether Download.com is really at fault here, or who/what is. For example, does Download.com have a responsibility not to report and index statistics such as most downloads last week, so that users can't be tricked into thinking that Download.com recommends they install those programs arbitrarily?

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#265

Post by mark_l_watson » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

For the first time in 10 years, I just ordered a Windows 8.1 laptop (I live in a small town, I want to start teaching some free classes at our library, and thought I better also have a Windows laptop).

Someone commented on Amazon that he had to spend 2 hours removing crap-ware from the model I ordered and said he wished he would have bought directly from Microsoft. I looked, and Microsoft sells the same laptops with "signature" branding: this means that they sell you a crap-ware free system. So, I stopped the Amazon order and for the same money bought from Microsoft. I intend to only install Java 8, IntelliJ, git, ssh, and probably Pharo Smalltalk when I receive my new laptop.

A little off topic, but a few weeks ago I wiped my MacBook Air clean by reformatting the disk, did a fresh install, and just installed what I need for writing and development work. Now my MacBook Air runs faster and I recovered a lot of disk space.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#266

Post by rev_bird » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #209

JohnTHaller wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple tricked quite a few Windows users into installing Safari and setting it as the default. Then Apple discontinued Safari for Windows without making an announcement or notifying uses (same as they do with older OS X versions... they just stop updating them). So there are quite a few people out there using Safari on Windows with no clue about the fact that they're using a completely insecure browser.

If someone went to the trouble of installing Safari they know And by the way, I never managed to make it work in Windows...

One of the main points of this thread is that Apple specifically targeted people who _weren't_ trying to install it.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#267

Post by lotharbot » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #227

rhia wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know quite a few people who are too cheap to pay the < 1$ for most apps...

And I know quite a few people who are too broke to pay $1 for most apps. You are implying that people pirate $1 games "because they're too cheap to pay" which most of the time is just completely untrue - for a lot of people, it's a matter of not having the money. Some people here need to take a reality check break once in a while and look at people who don't make as much as they do.

If they somehow came up with the money to buy an iPhone -- $500+ unlocked, or $100+/month on a multi-year contract -- they don't "not [have] the money" to occasionally spend $1 on an app. They've just chosen to spend a lot on the phone itself, which might not leave much left over.

Lest you think I'm speaking from a position of not understanding poverty: my salary in 2013 was $21k pre-tax, with a wife and a kid. I had a $10 flip phone and spent about $8 a month on minutes.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#268

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

rev_bird wrote: post #266

raverbashing wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone went to the trouble of installing Safari they know And by the way, I never managed to make it work in Windows...

One of the main points of this thread is that Apple specifically targeted people who _weren't_ trying to install it.

Ah I understand now.

True, if you installed iTunes or QT and it installed it as extra, yeah, you probably have an older browser installed (but I think there's not that many people that still use it)

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#269

Post by sireat » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #157

sireat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, is there shareware which is not dead today? Where are the shareware success stories? Where is PC-Write, PKZip or Commander Keen of 2015? I'd even settle for WinRAR of today.

Shareware today is basically a trialware from smaller/indie developers. As such, there's a plenty if you look beyond the company facades. Just go to Softpedia, pull up a Windows app section and filter in Paid apps. The vast majority of what you see is shareware. NetBalancer, Syncovery, AX64, various PDF viewers, drive emulators for cloud storage services, etc. - all of these are made either by a single person or smal…

Thanks for the pointers!

You are right, even Windows itself qualifies as trialware these days.

Re: What Happens When You Install the Top Download.com Apps

#270

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #205

Sir_Substance wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always considered the assertion that quality content is only created if there is financial reward to be a flagrant lie. Expectations of ads fully supporting websites are relatively new even to the world wide web, let alone the internet. 10 years ago, you might at best hope that your ads would offset a bit of the websites hosting costs. The really good content is put up by people who are in it because they care a…

There is certainly a lot of great content created by people doing it for the love, but love only gets a person so far. To do real in-depth reporting takes quite a bit of time, way more than anyone but the independently wealthy have at their disposal unless they are working (and being paid) as professional reporters. Consider the work on the Snowden files. Snowden handed his huge collection to professional reporters,…

Ok, but on the other hand consider the remaining 95% of content created by news sites, which is lies, clickbait, and total&utter crap. I very much apperciate investigative journalism for both the entertainment value and the function it provides to society - but that's a very, very small part of what gets published in papers, and the rest of what gets to the front pages of news sites is what makes them an example, not an exception, of my rule.

I applaud the work of professional journalists who care about stories they do and providing value to the public. So I want to support them, but not the other 95% published under the same banner. Because seriously, I get much better value from HN and Reddit comments, which not surprisingly, are both free and written by people who care.