Experts pledge to rein in AI research • Hacker News Board

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#21

Post by 3beard » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:32 PM UTC

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #11

bsaunder wrote: post #9

"In the short term, this could mean research into the economic effects of AI to stop smart systems putting millions of people out of work." This seems unfortunate and somewhat challenging to do. Our current economic model encourages improving efficiency of systems. This seems like a good thing. Its really too bad that people "need" jobs. Jobs should be creating value or they shouldn't exist. Artificially "creating" j…

How about a tax on AI that goes towards unemployment benefits of some kind?

I don't understand why AI eliminating jobs is considered a problem. If any job can be done by a computer program it simply means that humanity has outgrown this kind of work and that nobody should do that mindnumbing crap anymore. Let's forget that the word "computer" used to mean "guy who sits in an office of an accounting firm, and adds numbers all day long".

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#22

Post by amelius » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:34 PM UTC

Why not do the same with all of technology?

Why do shareholders of big corporations profit from science in a grossly non-proportional way, while more than 50% of world's population has to live on under $2 a day?

It is time for the world's greatest minds to start thinking about how to fix capitalism, because it seems to be seriously broken.

And we need it fixed more than we need e.g. iPhone 7.0, or Google Adwords 2.0.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#23

Post by AlisdairO » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:37 PM UTC

3beard wrote: post #21

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a tax on AI that goes towards unemployment benefits of some kind?

I don't understand why AI eliminating jobs is considered a problem. If any job can be done by a computer program it simply means that humanity has outgrown this kind of work and that nobody should do that mindnumbing crap anymore. Let's forget that the word "computer" used to mean "guy who sits in an office of an accounting firm, and adds numbers all day long".

That's fantastic, as long as there are alternative jobs for those people to go to that they can feasibly perform. This has historically been the case with technology replacing work, but it's not clear whether it's the case this time.

If there's no (or insufficient) jobs for people to go to, in a society that predicates your ability to live a pleasant life on having one, you have a huge social problem. Our current system is not set up to cope with 40% of the population being out of work.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#24

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:41 PM UTC

maaaats wrote: post #7

I wonder: Why should we care about what Musk and Hawking mean about AI? This article doesn't mention too much bad stuff, but earlier they have said that we should be afraid of AI/singularity. With my thesis now in AI, I probably know far more than those two about this. And we're sooo far away from AI being a superforce destroying mankind.

[deleted]

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#25

Post by rndn » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #20

rndn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, the perceived danger here is more the lack of social acceptance of unemployed people. I think however, that if a large part or even a majority of the population is unemployable it will necessarily lead to social acceptance. People will simply have a lot of leisure time.

It's more than that. You hit on it in the last part of your comment. This is about having tons of leisure life. How is it parceled out? How do people stay engaged in life and happy? Remember, there are already lots of rich people who have as much leisure life as they want. And it's not a good thing for many of them. It's like a study posted on HN said a while back: you can have a meaningful life, or your can have a h…

But even in leisure time there are things to achieve, for example learning new skills, exercising and gaining reputation in virtual worlds. I think the concept of "meaning in life" is more flexible than often assumed.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#26

Post by harshreality » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

faizshah wrote: post #18

I don't know much about the philosophy of AI and I'm only familiar at a basic level with modern AI algorithms. From what I have been exposed to I don't see any reason to think AI is any more than a set of statistical frameworks. Is there any reason to believe that these statistical frameworks are comparable to biological intelligence? Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

It sounds like you're talking about the kinds of AI in use today? That's not what the cautions are about, since current "AI" however good at reading individual words or flying drones is not yet capable of human-level thought. The cautions are about trans-sapient AI, which doesn't exist yet. Even if it's simply a beefed up "set of statistical frameworks" linked in the right way to get a computer behave like a human, humans develop and use nuclear weapons, humans go on shooting sprees, humans decide to go to war...

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#27

Post by DennisP » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

maaaats wrote: post #7

I wonder: Why should we care about what Musk and Hawking mean about AI? This article doesn't mention too much bad stuff, but earlier they have said that we should be afraid of AI/singularity. With my thesis now in AI, I probably know far more than those two about this. And we're sooo far away from AI being a superforce destroying mankind.

They aren't the only ones who signed it, they just get top media billing because they always do. Other people who signed include AI researchers. Peter Norvig, for one.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#28

Post by unseraphim » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:46 PM UTC

faizshah wrote: post #18

I don't know much about the philosophy of AI and I'm only familiar at a basic level with modern AI algorithms. From what I have been exposed to I don't see any reason to think AI is any more than a set of statistical frameworks. Is there any reason to believe that these statistical frameworks are comparable to biological intelligence? Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

No, you are not thinking about it the wrong way. Neither Hawking nor Musk is an expert in AI; their only contribution to the discussion is their fame.

Curbing research into AI at this stage is like banning rock smashing research in the Palaeolithic Era because it could lead to uncontrolled fission.

The "leading experts" in AI are not so leading and not so expert. It is simply our ego, self-focus, and arrogance that allows the notion that AI research could be anywhere near posing a danger. We're not all that, and it is self-flattery to have this discussion in 2015 at more than the level of mild curiosity.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#29

Post by drcomputer » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #17

drcomputer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more AI working in the domain of computer security. Stuff that learns under specific guidelines to restrict computational behavior, given specifications of expected behavior.

You'll have AI working the other side of the arms race just the same. Tools aren't just used by the good guys.

That won't stop the bad guys from making those tools while the good guys don't, because they are afraid their tools will be used by the bad guys.

Ignorance is not a good defense strategy.

Re: Experts pledge to rein in AI research

#30

Post by jimbokun » Tue, Jan 13, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

3beard wrote: post #21

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a tax on AI that goes towards unemployment benefits of some kind?

I don't understand why AI eliminating jobs is considered a problem. If any job can be done by a computer program it simply means that humanity has outgrown this kind of work and that nobody should do that mindnumbing crap anymore. Let's forget that the word "computer" used to mean "guy who sits in an office of an accounting firm, and adds numbers all day long".

Because with our current economic model, all the benefits will go to the people supplying the capital to develop and deploy the AI.

In the long term, we may discover more sophisticated AI has different goals and priorities than us, and we won't be able to control it or turn it off.